Is it possible for ADs to sell a fake Rolex?

[Gd93]

General question for anyone with knowledge that can help. I recently got engaged and my parents gifted me a stainless steel submariner that was supposed to be from 1991. They bought it from London jewelers who is an authorized dealer of Rolex, however, I was vacationing in Greece and brought it to a watch shop who said it was fake. Immediately I thought this was impossible because London jewlers is an AD. But I went home and weighed it (it came out to 125 grams) I looked up what the weight of these watches were at the time as I know the newer ones from 2010 on are heavier. I found that it should typically be 135 grams. Because of this I took it to London jewlers and the representative I spoke with assured me there is no way a watch they would sell us is a fake. He went on to appraise the watch for the amount my parents paid for it which gave me peace of mind.

Fast forward a few months and I’m getting more and more into watches and notice that many older subs have a t<25 under the 6 o’clock marker on the dial. I read that rolex did this up until 1998 when they decided to not use tritium in their dials anymore for lume. I look at my sub and it reads “swiss made” so I am going through the whole doubting process again. Sorry for the long story but I felt it was necessary. Is it possible that a Rolex AD sold my parents a fake sub? I would really appreciate your help with this as it’s been stressing me for a while. Thank you so much, keep up the awesome content

[kevc]

The watch could have been serviced and had a dial replaced with non tritium ones.

[joli160]

Not possible. Really you are fine.

[Rori]

When do your parents bought the watch, Recently or back in 1991?
It's an old watch so as Joli mentioned it can be serviced and dial changed, you never now how many works has been done to it.
Regarding the weight, are you talking 135gr for the case alone? if so we can say there's a difference if you're weighting the whole watch then that can never be determined because your watch may be missing some links "resized"

[swatty]

Please share a pic when you get enough posts

[Harry-57]

If it has been Rolex serviced the tritium will have been removed and replaced. This will have necessitated changing the dial. It won't have a t<25 designation because there is no longer any t in the watch.

Weights do vary. Watches don't necessarily weigh the same as any published data and as has been said, if links have been removed the weight will have gone down.

There is always the possibility of accidentally buying something which is not as represented, sometimes with the best will in the world from all involved. In situations like yours, the chances are vanishingly small. If it still niggles, either take it to another Rolex AD and ask them to appraise it or send it to Rolex for a service. A Rolex Service Centre will tell you soon enough. Don't use jewellers and independents, go to Rolex.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Gd93

General question for anyone with knowledge that can help. I recently got engaged and my parents gifted me a stainless steel submariner that was supposed to be from 1991. They bought it from London jewelers who is an authorized dealer of Rolex, however, I was vacationing in Greece and brought it to a watch shop who said it was fake. Immediately I thought this was impossible because London jewlers is an AD. But I went home and weighed it (it came out to 125 grams) I looked up what the weight of these watches were at the time as I know the newer ones from 2010 on are heavier. I found that it should typically be 135 grams. Because of this I took it to London jewlers and the representative I spoke with assured me there is no way a watch they would sell us is a fake. He went on to appraise the watch for the amount my parents paid for it which gave me peace of mind.

Fast forward a few months and I’m getting more and more into watches and notice that many older subs have a t<25 under the 6 o’clock marker on the dial. I read that rolex did this up until 1998 when they decided to not use tritium in their dials anymore for lume. I look at my sub and it reads “swiss made” so I am going through the whole doubting process again. Sorry for the long story but I felt it was necessary. Is it possible that a Rolex AD sold my parents a fake sub? I would really appreciate your help with this as it’s been stressing me for a while. Thank you so much, keep up the awesome content

First what model sub is it a sub with date, or a no date sub,and if watch is from 1991 many would of had the dials changed as the Tritium lume would have lost its glow.A sub with date all of its links weigh around 135g a no date sub with all its links around 127g possible link could have been removed.And for any AD to knowingly sell anything fake extremely doubtful.

[Canbs]

Congratulations on the engagement and the Submariner.

Originally Posted by kevc

The watch could have been serviced and had a dial replaced with non tritium ones.

It is most likely a service dial as kevc stated. Does the lume on the dial and the hands still glow?

Among many other possibilities, it may not be from 1991.

If you can post/look up the first letter of the serial number (found on the papers or under the 6 o'clock side lugs when the bracelet is removed) you can roughly identify the date the case was stamped.

Post pictures, better yet get it authenticated somewhere else for peace of mind but I'm sure you are fine.

[Pongster]

What was Greek AD’s basis for declaring it a fake?

Did a technician make a complete examination?

Best to send to an RSC. I understand they won’t service a fake piece. So if they give you a service quote after examining it, that may be an indication that it’s genuine.

[MTdweller]

I believe Rolex has a service center in NYC. Take it in a see what they say.

[seasubmariner]

Originally Posted by Gd93

General question for anyone with knowledge that can help. I recently got engaged and my parents gifted me a stainless steel submariner that was supposed to be from 1991. They bought it from London jewelers who is an authorized dealer of Rolex, however, I was vacationing in Greece and brought it to a watch shop who said it was fake. Immediately I thought this was impossible because London jewlers is an AD. But I went home and weighed it (it came out to 125 grams) I looked up what the weight of these watches were at the time as I know the newer ones from 2010 on are heavier. I found that it should typically be 135 grams. Because of this I took it to London jewlers and the representative I spoke with assured me there is no way a watch they would sell us is a fake. He went on to appraise the watch for the amount my parents paid for it which gave me peace of mind.

Fast forward a few months and I’m getting more and more into watches and notice that many older subs have a t<25 under the 6 o’clock marker on the dial. I read that rolex did this up until 1998 when they decided to not use tritium in their dials anymore for lume. I look at my sub and it reads “swiss made” so I am going through the whole doubting process again. Sorry for the long story but I felt it was necessary. Is it possible that a Rolex AD sold my parents a fake sub? I would really appreciate your help with this as it’s been stressing me for a while. Thank you so much, keep up the awesome content

An AD would not sell a fake ROLEX. However if the watch gets a damage inside the AD, they will probably get it fixed secretly with whatever part in stock asap and try to sell it as new as long as nothing is noticable Thats where the dial together with hands could have been replaced. They know which customer is fussy which customer is not careful. So they know which watch to sell to who. They know what they are doing. I do not trust anyone in life.

If I were you I would try to find as many photos of that watch online as possible including the photos of the movement. I would not just send the watch which will cause more dramas. I would see an independent and would ask him to open the case for me and I would examine if the movement is genuine Rolex and belongs to that series of the watch. Then it should cost only 1 new caseback gasket and 1 bar air pressure test will do without taking the risk to break the crystal if you wont dive 100 meters, which will take max 10 seconds.

[blada4life]

Many ADs can’t spot a true fake from their @ss. They do it as a way to beat you down. Maybe convince you to buy from them. All they ever see are authentic new watches. What experience do they have evaluating vintage or older pieces, especially for authenticity? Sounds like a bunch of crap to me. As another poster asked, what was his basis for indicating the watch was a fake? Was it just sitting on your wrist?


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[seasubmariner]

Originally Posted by blada4life

Many ADs can’t spot a true fake from their @ss. They do it as a way to beat you down. Maybe convince you to buy from them. All they ever see are authentic new watches. What experience do they have evaluating vintage or older pieces, especially for authenticity? Sounds like a bunch of crap to me. As another poster asked, what was his basis for indicating the watch was a fake? Was it just sitting on your wrist?


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%100 agree. ADs only job is to sell you a new watch. If it s a good fake and they are not sure about it, why should they claim that the watch is fake. They will complement you for your choice and try to sell new watches to you that s what their job.

Taking the watch to an independent getting the caseback opened and examining the parts inside as well as finding a similar one for sale and meeting with the seller and checking the watch with a loop and trying to find differences is the way to go.

[danyvw]

Do all ADs have trained/certified watchmakers to authenticate a used watch? No. I wouldn't trust them when buying a used piece unless it was certified by RSC. I'm not saying that your watch is fake but If I were you I would look for a certified watchmaker to confirm authenticity or send it to the RSC.

[RJ_88]

Yeah in India - Chandigarh - Talwaar Jewellers. dodgy as hell!

[77T]

First, you should consider this point - the watch store in Greece stated their opinion from a simple glance and perhaps made an error. It would be easy to do since a 1991 serial number wouldn’t normally have a Luminova dial.

But let’s say the Greek AD was right...

The London AD may have slipped up and taken a watch in trade with an aftermarket or refinished dial and sold it to your parents. Unusual and improbable but possible.

Your post without good sharp close-up photos is useless. Need pics of the dial, case, bracelet, clasp (inside and out), serial number engraving and reference number.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by kevc

The watch could have been serviced and had a dial replaced with non tritium ones.

This is the most likely case here.

I have a 1996, 16613 W s/n Bluesy with a service dial put in by the RSC in 2000 because the original owner didn’t like having an “old obsolete dial”.

At a glance it might seem incorrect to a SA at a store counter.


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[Bizcut1]

Are we discussing fakes?

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

Are we discussing fakes?

Certainly seems so, a lot of that recently invading the forum

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Gd93

General question for anyone with knowledge that can help. I recently got engaged and my parents gifted me a stainless steel submariner that was supposed to be from 1991. They bought it from London jewelers who is an authorized dealer of Rolex, however, I was vacationing in Greece and brought it to a watch shop who said it was fake. Immediately I thought this was impossible because London jewlers is an AD. But I went home and weighed it (it came out to 125 grams) I looked up what the weight of these watches were at the time as I know the newer ones from 2010 on are heavier. I found that it should typically be 135 grams. Because of this I took it to London jewlers and the representative I spoke with assured me there is no way a watch they would sell us is a fake. He went on to appraise the watch for the amount my parents paid for it which gave me peace of mind.

Fast forward a few months and I’m getting more and more into watches and notice that many older subs have a t<25 under the 6 o’clock marker on the dial. I read that rolex did this up until 1998 when they decided to not use tritium in their dials anymore for lume. I look at my sub and it reads “swiss made” so I am going through the whole doubting process again. Sorry for the long story but I felt it was necessary. Is it possible that a Rolex AD sold my parents a fake sub? I would really appreciate your help with this as it’s been stressing me for a while. Thank you so much, keep up the awesome content

Without detailed images no one can help.

Was the watch sold as new?
Was this a "dealer" or an Authorized Rolex watch dealer?

[Crazy Lugs]

FWIW, my K-serial 14060M weighs 125 grams with 11 links.

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

Are we discussing fakes?

I am not ready to say that. Rather, we are discussing his london ad, the Greek ad, and who is credible.

There has been precious little detail on the watch itself, I don't feel we are even discussing the watch at this point ;)

[Calatrava r]

The watch may not be 100% original but I would not think it is a fake. Fakes in 1991 were pretty awful and recognizable which is not the case today.

[garyk]

I don’t think fakes are so good as to fool the AD.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Gd93

General question for anyone with knowledge that can help. I recently got engaged and my parents gifted me a stainless steel submariner that was supposed to be from 1991. They bought it from London jewelers who is an authorized dealer of Rolex, however, I was vacationing in Greece and brought it to a watch shop who said it was fake. Immediately I thought this was impossible because London jewlers is an AD. But I went home and weighed it (it came out to 125 grams) I looked up what the weight of these watches were at the time as I know the newer ones from 2010 on are heavier. I found that it should typically be 135 grams. Because of this I took it to London jewlers and the representative I spoke with assured me there is no way a watch they would sell us is a fake. He went on to appraise the watch for the amount my parents paid for it which gave me peace of mind.

Fast forward a few months and I’m getting more and more into watches and notice that many older subs have a t<25 under the 6 o’clock marker on the dial. I read that rolex did this up until 1998 when they decided to not use tritium in their dials anymore for lume. I look at my sub and it reads “swiss made” so I am going through the whole doubting process again. Sorry for the long story but I felt it was necessary. Is it possible that a Rolex AD sold my parents a fake sub? I would really appreciate your help with this as it’s been stressing me for a while. Thank you so much, keep up the awesome content

Post photos or this whole thread is fake

[garyk]

Originally Posted by padi56

First what model sub is it a sub with date, or a no date sub,and if watch is from 1991 many would of had the dials changed as the Tritium lume would have lost its glow.A sub with date all of its links weigh around 135g a no date sub with all its links around 127g possible link could have been removed.And for any AD to knowingly sell anything fake extremely doubtful.

Peter, apologies for using the term "fake", I meant to and will from now on refer to them as "Not Real", "similar to actual", "Asian life like" or "Unreasonable facsimile". But seriously, just read your remarks on another thread and I didn't know that so mums the word from now on...

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Gd93

. . .

Fast forward a few months and I’m getting more and more into watches and notice that many older subs have a t<25 under the 6 o’clock marker on the dial. I read that rolex did this up until 1998 when they decided to not use tritium in their dials anymore for lume. I look at my sub and it reads “swiss made” so I am going through the whole doubting process again. . . .

Nothing you have said would indicate a "fake"..

Does your watch have all of the links? Take out a couple and it will be lighter, add a couple and it is heavier.

What do you base the "1991" date on?

Most AD's that sell used Rolex will fully service them before putting them in the display case. This frequently means a dial and hand change to modern Luminova, which is a Swiss Made dial.

[wm82]

Originally Posted by Gd93

General question for anyone with knowledge that can help. I recently got engaged and my parents gifted me a stainless steel submariner that was supposed to be from 1991. They bought it from London jewelers who is an authorized dealer of Rolex, however, I was vacationing in Greece and brought it to a watch shop who said it was fake. Immediately I thought this was impossible because London jewlers is an AD. But I went home and weighed it (it came out to 125 grams) I looked up what the weight of these watches were at the time as I know the newer ones from 2010 on are heavier. I found that it should typically be 135 grams. Because of this I took it to London jewlers and the representative I spoke with assured me there is no way a watch they would sell us is a fake. He went on to appraise the watch for the amount my parents paid for it which gave me peace of mind.

Fast forward a few months and I’m getting more and more into watches and notice that many older subs have a t<25 under the 6 o’clock marker on the dial. I read that rolex did this up until 1998 when they decided to not use tritium in their dials anymore for lume. I look at my sub and it reads “swiss made” so I am going through the whole doubting process again. Sorry for the long story but I felt it was necessary. Is it possible that a Rolex AD sold my parents a fake sub? I would really appreciate your help with this as it’s been stressing me for a while. Thank you so much, keep up the awesome content

The weight thing is really not worth thinking of because it will depend on the amount of links in the bracelet and how much dirt/grime is lodged within the hollow links... Seen some steel bracelets with gold weight because of all the guff stuck inside, especially with jubilees...
An AD would not unknowingly sell a fake, no....

[wm82]

Originally Posted by Tools

Nothing you have said would indicate a "fake"..

Does your watch have all of the links? Take out a couple and it will be lighter, add a couple and it is heavier.

What do you base the "1991" date on?

Most AD's that sell used Rolex will fully service them before putting them in the display case. This frequently means a dial and hand change to modern Luminova, which is a Swiss Made dial.

Noone would replace a dial unless it is somehow damaged, though. Especially in this day and age. Dials are quite expensive so not just replaced on routine...

[GGGMT]

Post some pix OP! Why are we Messing with this thread sans any pic??


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