Rolex 904L steel question..

[Tri-National-Man]

I saw a Rolex advertisement in latest National Geographic saying that all their cases are made with 904L . Does this mean that bracelets are not, or are they too??

[SeamasterGMT]

The Deepsea has a 904L bracelet.

[keltzar]

Things may have changed now, but the s/s watches from about 1988 till recently were still using 316L bracelets as far as I know, even after the cases went 904L.

May have also made more sense - less allergy problems with 316L than 904L.

[nylawbiz]

I believe the newer clasps are also 904L.

[JG99]

A bit of googling around suggests the GMT Master IIc is. There is a nice little video on youtube about 904L steel from Rolex if anyone is interested.

[DSJ]

There are NUMBEROUS threads about 904L on TRF.

[padi56]

IMHO the use of 904L is just pure marketing hype and there are many posts on TRF on this subject.904L S.steel was developed originally for its resistance to sulphuric acid and shows a little bit more resistance to acid corrosion than 316L.So if you don't put your hands and watch into corrosive substances. It shows little or no advantage to the normal 316L thats used by the rest of the watch industry.And in many ways 316L is superior to 904L if 904L was so special don't you think all high end brands would use it.But the fact that it cost more is just a marketing bragging factor and remember another marketing brag, it takes a whole year to make a Rolex.

904L S.steel typical applications include
Processing plant for sulphuric, phosphoric, and acetic acids, vinegar pickling condiment factories.
Pulp and paper processing

Components in gas scrubbing plants

Seawater cooling equipment

Oil refinery components

Wires in electrostatic precipitations

Well as far as I know Rolex is the only manufacturer to use this kind of 904L steel Stainless steel for the purpose of watch case part making its slightly more corrosion resistant than industry standard (316L)AISI 904L is a optimum choice for manufacturing of stainless steel for use in chemical corrosive plants and it offers a very high resistant to seawater corrosion.But IMO now because of the high nickel content,904L its only used on the parts with no direct skin contact like case ring pins etc.And as far as I am aware only certain parts of your Rolex are 904L the rest according to a Rolex employee the more common 316L but this could have changed.

But I would doubt if Rolex would say that because 904L,is approx 3 times more expensive than the more common 316L.And we all know more expensive is always better. But if 904L was all that superior than the 316L don't you think that all high end brands would use it.IMHO it shows little or no real advantage except one the pure marketing hype factor.



Quote from directly from Rolex employee in 2002/3.
At the moment, we have several companies all over the world, serving our needs for stainless steel. The watch case backs and bracelets are all made of (X2CrNiMo17-12-2 S. steel)( now that is the formula for 316L) which is the best compromise between the attributes of the variant materials. As usual, the steel is melted under vacuum, so we get an very pure base, which is easy to handle and allows an perfect polishing. I think, the same procedure as in every good gold manufacturing company.

[DSJ]

Nice post Padi. My question then, is 316L really that much better for watches than 304 stainless steel? I bought some 304 license plate frames for my cars, and despite 3 winters of salt/sand brine blasting on the front plates they are still rust free (although they do have slight pitting from the sand).

[Whiskey]

If you want to see the difference, put and Omega bracelet and a Rolex bracelet next to each other. Feel the weight.

There is a difference in quality and weight.

My understanding is that an entire Rolex is 904L.

[aleeboy]

After reading Watchtime's article on the DSSD, I now believe that only the case is made of 904L steel (as the post above states). I'm not too fussed about this fact, but I am annoyed that I thought the bracelet was also made of this

[entropydave]

Nope, all made of 904L, cases, bracelets & clasps!

[flyback]

904L will perform better in salt water. And I don't mean weekend dives followed by a shower, I mean constant cycling between immersion in the ocean and exposure to air, with sunlight thrown in to catalyze oxidation. That environment is extremely hard on stainless steels (especially brushed finishes).

In practice this won't make a difference to most people.

[flyback]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

If you want to see the difference, put and Omega bracelet and a Rolex bracelet next to each other. Feel the weight.

There is a difference in quality and weight.

My understanding is that an entire Rolex is 904L.

Both grades have the same density; given the same volume of material they would weigh the same.

[SeamasterGMT]

316L is hypoallergenic, so if you're allergic to nickel you'd be better off avoiding 904L.

[Xenophon]

Has anyone in the history of Rolex ever had an allergic reaction to their 316L anyway ?

[SeamasterGMT]

No because 316L is hypoallergenic.

[tthopp05]

The DEEPSEA is made with 904L.Braclet and case.

[ninetres]

The case, braclet and clasp are pure 904L. It is harder and more corrosion resistant.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by ninetres

The case, braclet and clasp are pure 904L. It is harder and more corrosion resistant.

Yes it would be more corrosion resistant,but only if you put your watch into some sort of strong acid.Which the average person will never do so in reality little or no better than the 316L.I have dived for most of my life and not a weekend diver,sometimes my watches never seen fresh water for many weeks.But none of my watches Rolex with 316L or any other diving watch had any problem
with salt water corrosion.

[ninetres]

Originally Posted by padi56

Yes it would be more corrosion resistant,but only if you put your watch into some sort of strong acid.Which the average person will never do so in reality little or no better than the 316L.I have dived for most of my life and not a weekend diver,sometimes my watches never seen fresh water for many weeks.But none of my watches Rolex with 316L or any other diving watch had any problem
with salt water corrosion.

Chances are you would never dive 12,000 feet either.....or drive the car you own north of 100mph. Follow me?

904L is also harder. The process in which Rolex alloys it is also quite intensive and facinitaing.

[Armand]

As I understand it, the better corrosion resistance of 904L is because of Sea Water, Sweat and chlorinated Swimminp pool water. And all that together for YEARS.

NOT that this would totally corrode the watch, but to minimise pitting in secluded areas, like threads and joints, e.g. under the bezel, under the end links, in the case back threads ...

Hermann

[SD81]

As far as I am aware, the "special" Rolex steel is more resistant to oxidation as well. They say that this also explains why a Rolex will always have that lovely almost "white" tinge to the steel many years later and it remains looking fresh even after it gets tiny scratches etc. Other watches I have owned look a little duller after a while or heavy use diving etc, no matter how many times you clean them, but my Dweller always looks brand new every single time and has not aged a bit over the years, whereas my Omega Seamaster started to look a little more dull after a while.

I would also note that although I could not attribute this directly to the properties of the steel, my Seamaster looked a lot worse for wear and was riddled in scratches and scuffs, whereas my Dweller seems to stand up the heavy wear a lot better, or it certainly hides it better, a I treat it worse than I did my Omega!!!

[spirotechnique]

Better than any more comments I would like to share with you a picture I have done of 2 samples of SS steel one 316 L and one 904L after various corrosion tests



who said 904L was a marketing gimmick ?

by the way theses tests have been done in my lab, I work as an engineer in the hyperbar industry for geophysics

[ninetres]

Originally Posted by spirotechnique

Better than any more comments I would like to share with you a picture I have done of 2 samples of SS steel one 316 L and one 904L after various corrosion tests

by the way theses tests have been done in my lab, I work as an engineer in the hyperbar industry for geophysics

Game, set, match. Thank you sir.

[spirotechnique]

Originally Posted by ninetres

Game, set, match. Thank you sir.

you are welcome

[argee1977]

Did this test include sulphuric acid and other things that would favour 904L, that's great if you're wanting to buy a tank to hold sulphuric acid or similar, but for a watch test it's not exactly conclusive, i think the fact that 316L has been used for decades in watch cases and bracelets speaks more for its merits, just look at vintage watches and the 316L cases are still going strong.


I really wish people would just see the 904L usage as marketing plain and simple, nobody else uses it, that's why Rolex use it, if everyone else had used 904L then Rolex would have bought something else. Padi is 100% correct, 904L is used primarily in areas where contact with corrosive acids are going to occur, that is its main strength, it can take a bath in acid.

But for the watch world what exactly do you need, you need something that can deal with sweat, seawater and other day to day contacts, if anyone came into contact with sulphuric acid the last thing they'd worry about is the watch, the fact their arm was disinegrating would be of greater importance.

[ninetres]

Originally Posted by argee1977

Did this test include sulphuric acid and other things that would favour 904L, that's great if you're wanting to buy a tank to hold sulphuric acid or similar, but for a watch test it's not exactly conclusive, i think the fact that 316L has been used for decades in watch cases and bracelets speaks more for its merits, just look at vintage watches and the 316L cases are still going strong.


I really wish people would just see the 904L usage as marketing plain and simple, nobody else uses it, that's why Rolex use it, if everyone else had used 904L then Rolex would have bought something else. Padi is 100% correct, 904L is used primarily in areas where contact with corrosive acids are going to occur, that is its main strength, it can take a bath in acid.

But for the watch world what exactly do you need, you need something that can deal with sweat, seawater and other day to day contacts, if anyone came into contact with sulphuric acid the last thing they'd worry about is the watch, the fact their arm was disinegrating would be of greater importance.

You couldn't be farther from the truth labeling 904L as a marketing tool. Yes Rolex is the only one who uses it......BE PROUD OF THAT. You have one of the finest watches your hard earned money can buy. (taking your "bandwagon ideaology a step further) Would you prefer a chinese quartz movement, gold plated brass case, and a vinyl strap?........I mean, thats what most watch brands use!!!! 904L is more expensive and requires MUCH more expensive and heavy duty presses to stamp cases and braclets out of. Rolex actually had to redo the foundation in Switzerlad to accomidate the presses.....IT SHOOK THE BUILDING TOO MUCH lol.

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by ninetres

You couldn't be farther from the truth labeling 904L as a marketing tool. Yes Rolex is the only one who uses it......BE PROUD OF THAT. You have one of the finest watches your hard earned money can buy. (taking your "bandwagon ideaology a step further) Would you prefer a chinese quartz movement, gold plated brass case, and a vinyl strap?........I mean, thats what most watch brands use!!!! 904L is more expensive and requires MUCH more expensive and heavy duty presses to stamp cases and braclets out of. Rolex actually had to redo the foundation in Switzerlad to accomidate the presses.....IT SHOOK THE BUILDING TOO MUCH lol.

I just like Rolex for the way they look and the fact that their movements are bulletproof (not literally as someone tested once!). The casing, bracelet, etc are what i would describe as workmanlike, they aren't as pretty as others but they are tool watches and do exactly what it says on the tin.

But, i'm not really into their marketing spiel, that is what they use to sell watches to people who know little about materials, watches and so on, they live off their name and coming out with new 'technology' such as parachrom blu hairsprings, rolesium, superlative chronometre officially certified, everose, etc, etc, etc. This means very little to me, the parachrom blu isn't going to work any differently to a nivarox hairspring, evergold will not be any better than most rose gold 18k cases and so on.

[ninetres]

Originally Posted by argee1977

I just like Rolex for the way they look and the fact that their movements are bulletproof (not literally as someone tested once!). The casing, bracelet, etc are what i would describe as workmanlike, they aren't as pretty as others but they are tool watches and do exactly what it says on the tin.

But, i'm not really into their marketing spiel, that is what they use to sell watches to people who know little about materials, watches and so on, they live off their name and coming out with new 'technology' such as parachrom blu hairsprings, rolesium, superlative chronometre officially certified, everose, etc, etc, etc. This means very little to me, the parachrom blu isn't going to work any differently to a nivarox hairspring, evergold will not be any better than most rose gold 18k cases and so on.

Everrose rose and parachrom do actually have several advantages. I'll skip detailing them due to the fact that you seem to have no interest in what makes a rolex more special that other stainless steel watches.

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by ninetres

Everrose rose and parachrom do actually have several advantages. I'll skip detailing them due to the fact that you seem to have no interest in what makes a rolex more special that other stainless steel watches.

I'm just not sold on these things, parachrom was made so that Rolex didn't have to go and buy the nivarox, unless you're standing next to a demagnitizer that's on i doubt there is much use in the parachrom, and the nivarox actually has similar properties.

The everose again is just Rolexes take on rose gold, it still has the standard 75% gold and almost the same amount of copper, all they do is add a little platinum, it's not rocket science and adds no real benefit.

For me i just don't buy the marketing spiel, yes it's all good and well going on about superlative chronometers and parachrom hairsprings, but what actual benefit do you get, you can go out and buy 10 watches from 10 manufacturers, get them all regulated to the same level and they'll all do a similar job, the reason i have bought and buy rolex is that i like the look, they have that and they work flawlessly.