Flagship watch of Grand Seiko

[Rexplorer214270]

Would it be the Snowflake or maybe the GMT SBGM221?

[bondtoys]

Who cares and why would that be important?

[Rexplorer214270]

Just trying to learn more about the brand. Why writing a snarking comment like that?

[1William]

Opinions will be varied on this topic. I have read about some of the very expensive LE Models and would assume that would be the ones but it could easily be the snowflake also. I am sure someone with more knowledge will be along and off some real information.

[steeevvvooo]

Snowflake is probably the most well known, and almost a "standard" GS, perhaps like the Submariner is to Rolex or the Speedmaster is to Omega? As for flagship that's much harder to say.

[calatravato]

First model that pops into my mind when I think of GS is the Snowflake. It embodies everything GS is known for-Spring Drive movement, beautiful, season-inspired dial, Zaratsu polishing. Go figure that I have 3 GS’s, none of which are the Snowflake...

[Kinnakeet]

Originally Posted by Rexplorer214270

Just trying to learn more about the brand. Why writing a snarking comment like that?

I agree - he needs a hug .

I think that the Snowflake has an iconic status in the watch world ; would that contribute to it being Grand Seikos flag ship piece..? I don’t know but it’s a question worth asking on the forum - to see what opinions there are ...

[Rexplorer214270]

Yea, essentially Rolex has the submariner, AP has the royal oak, Omega has the speed master. When you think Grand Seiko is it the snowflake or something else

[BDL]

Seems like the White Birch could become this...

[Fort Rolex]

Has to be the Snowflake

[Rado63]

The flagship watch is difficult to identify. I say that because they make an incredible level of watches form something you have to say touches haute horlogerie to watches that can be produced in large quantities to fill the demand at a competitive price offering amazing value. GS combines incredible mechanical movement, materials, dial design, case polishing. Here is an example:

[GB-man]

I don’t think there is one. The Japanese seem to play by their own rules and don’t hesitate to release extensive variants..

[accountank2000]

Originally Posted by Rexplorer214270

Yea, essentially Rolex has the submariner, AP has the royal oak, Omega has the speed master. When you think Grand Seiko is it the snowflake or something else

But a Submariner isn't rolex's 'flagship'. Sure, it's an iconic watch, but it's only a couple of rungs up the ladder from the oyster perpetual. There is a lot of demand for them due to being robust and versatile and the steel ones being relatively more affordable at MSRP than other Rolex models. But it's not the top of the tree, the aspirational model that all Rolex collectors would envy. The Seadweller is like a Sub but can go deeper. Meanwhile the Day-Date 'president' is 4x the price, and famous for being worn by presidents. The Daytona is more expensive than the sub with demand outstripping supply and the top vintage ones have sold for millions.

So it sounds like what you are asking is not what is the flagship, the best they have to offer - but simply, what is an 'iconic' popular watch made by Grand Seiko that people just getting into the brand will have seen a lot of, like AP's Royal Oak or Rolex's Sub. In which case you could say the Snowflake is probably what you would have seen a lot of on forums and social media, and would fit your bill.

I'm sure GS wouldn't consider it their 'flagship'. If you like spring drive they have one with an 8 day power reserve and open caseback which costs 10x the price of the Snowflake, and some of the anniversary limited editions are even more. Meanwhile, a snowflake can be bought in any mall that has a GS dealer by anyone that has $6k spare. They're very nice, but not high horology or the pinnacle of what GS wants to offer.

[Oyster Sauce]

I’m not sure if GS has a flagship yet. The Snowflake is arguably their most famous, but it is more of a “poster child” - not quite a next level up from their outstanding offerings in the similar price range. To me, a flagship would be a combination of being really famous and also somewhat exclusive. Perhaps like the Day Date for Rolex. At this point, GS doesn’t have the equivalent. I would also add that I’m not sure GS needs a flagship.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by accountank2000

But a Submariner isn't rolex's 'flagship'. Sure, it's an iconic watch, but it's only a couple of rungs up the ladder from the oyster perpetual. There is a lot of demand for them due to being robust and versatile and the steel ones being relatively more affordable at MSRP than other Rolex models. But it's not the top of the tree, the aspirational model that all Rolex collectors would envy. The Seadweller is like a Sub but can go deeper. Meanwhile the Day-Date 'president' is 4x the price, and famous for being worn by presidents. The Daytona is more expensive than the sub with demand outstripping supply and the top vintage ones have sold for millions.

So it sounds like what you are asking is not what is the flagship, the best they have to offer - but simply, what is an 'iconic' popular watch made by Grand Seiko that people just getting into the brand will have seen a lot of, like AP's Royal Oak or Rolex's Sub. In which case you could say the Snowflake is probably what you would have seen a lot of on forums and social media, and would fit your bill.

I'm sure GS wouldn't consider it their 'flagship'. If you like spring drive they have one with an 8 day power reserve and open caseback which costs 10x the price of the Snowflake, and some of the anniversary limited editions are even more. Meanwhile, a snowflake can be bought in any mall that has a GS dealer by anyone that has $6k spare. They're very nice, but not high horology or the pinnacle of what GS wants to offer.

Agreed with this.

Snowflake definitely is the most iconic GS. Equivalent to the Sub by Rolex, but Rolex has a lot of other well known watches - Daytona/GMT Master II/Datejust etc. AP realistically only has the Royal Oak, they’re almost a “one family brand”. Almost no one knows of any other model at AP.

I’d say that while GS is most well known for the Snowflake, there are so many variants that it’s easy to get lost in any model other than the snowflake. They’ve begun to establish a name for a few other models - namely the White Birch. I really don’t know of any others though, and with all the model numbers it’s really hard to keep track. I.e. I have the SBGE257, which I think most people won’t known what this is.

I do think GS has great design cue’s and nearly all their watches follow “the Grammar of Design” which was establish in the 60’s by GS. Even though I don’t know the model numbers, I think I can tell if a watch is a GS by it’s design alone. Spring Drive makes it even easier if the watch has that

[SUPERDOC]

Depends on definition of Flagship - "Flagship" is generally the best in the fleet -
8 Day spring drives could be an example -

But, if you're asking about the 'Snowflake' or the GMT 221 - I sense that what you're asking is, "what is the quintessential GS", or "Most Definitive/Iconic", or "Submariner/Speedmaster/RoyalOak equivalent"

if that is the case, then the snowflake would be hard to argue against it is well known, popular, and delivers the best talking points of GS - multiple types of finishing, including the mirror finished Zaratsu, the textured dial, and the springdrive...

I would argue that the new White Birch might become the new face of Grand Seiko, as it represents an impressive achievement in watchmaking (80 hr PR in a hi-beat!), and addresses some of the criticism about the snowflake : many feel it is too light (titanium) - which can make the bracelet feel flimsy - (The White birch is steel)
and the WB has a completely mechanical movement for the quartz averse.

The GMT 221 is the piece I refer to most as the perfect gateway to GS : insanely beautiful, sharply polished, and an incredible value proposition.

[mongrelnomoad]

General rule for flagships is to look at what's coming out of the Micro Studio reserved for the highest-end Grand Seiko and Credor models.

My absolute all-time favourite would be the SBGZ001. Platinum, hand-hammered with a hand-carved snowflake dial and manual-wind spring drive.



Or there's this piece of horological brilliance. SBGW263. Platinum, hand carved, 9S64 hand winding movement.

[PBJ1925]

Snowflake for GS is like Sub for a Rolex to me. Its the first image(s) that pops when a random stranger says I picked up my first GS, or first Rolex.

[mongrelnomoad]

Are you asking about a flagship or icon?

[Jack T]

Originally Posted by Rexplorer214270

Would it be the Snowflake or maybe the GMT SBGM221?

I too am just getting familiar with the brand, don’t know enough about the different models, but the snowflake dial seems to get a lot of attention.

[Uncle-AJ]

These are considered grail watches by many. The SBGM235 Kiku and SBGH267 Whirlpool, fortunately I own both of them.

[bibbi]

Originally Posted by Uncle-AJ

These are considered grail watches by many. The SBGM235 Kiku and SBGH267 Whirlpool, fortunately I own both of them.

Fully agree. I would add SBGY003 & SBGK005 to these two

[moneymike83]

They need to retire the snowflake and call it a day.


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[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by Uncle-AJ

These are considered grail watches by many. The SBGM235 Kiku and SBGH267 Whirlpool, fortunately I own both of them.

Whirlpool is amazing!


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[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by moneymike83

They need to retire the snowflake and call it a day.


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Rolex should retire Sub?


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[moneymike83]

Originally Posted by Rollieo

Rolex should retire Sub?


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Sure. Rolex have seadweller.


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[Rollieo]

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[pickettt]

Originally Posted by moneymike83

They need to retire the snowflake and call it a day.


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Why should they do that?

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

General rule for flagships is to look at what's coming out of the Micro Studio reserved for the highest-end Grand Seiko and Credor models.

My absolute all-time favourite would be the SBGZ001. Platinum, hand-hammered with a hand-carved snowflake dial and manual-wind spring drive.

If I were ever in the market for a $70,000 watch, that's my play.

[moneymike83]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Why should they do that?

They can produced better watches. Change color dials, maybe make a steel version.


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