Help Gauging Condition of a 16710

[bellyen]

Hi all,

Longtime lurker that could use some of the forum's expertise / fanaticism!

I recently purchased a Pepsi 16710, Y Serial c. 2001 from a reputable brick and mortar shop via an online marketplace.

It was listed as being:
1. In excellent/mint condition
2. As the lead word in its title, "UNPOLISHED"

Upon receiving it, I'm a bit skeptical.
1. I can't find a meaningful scratch/ding on the case
2. There's very little chamfer - I've heard later 16710s have little chamfer, but this has holes, so not sure if appropriate
3. The bracelet has a ton of stretch which a. to me isn't a sign of mint condition and b. seems like it was worn a lot, making point 1 more suspicious.
4. The lug edges seem a bit round for unpolished

Here are my questions:
I've spent most of my time looking at the lugs, which I feel like I've been trained to be persnickety about, but am unsure about the bezel insert, crown guards, or other things I'm not as familiar with. What are your thoughts there? Am I wrong? Delusional? Do you see any red flags / things that might suggest a fake or franken watch?

I'm likely keeping the watch for forever use, so I get the "why does it matter" argument, but I do feel like I should get what I was sold, and if something's noticeably off from that, maybe it's worth negotiating or returning.

P.S. Apologize for the bad photos, I have new-found respect for watch Instagram accounts.

[SparklesMcgraw]

Very tough to find a true unpolished example of these unless you are willing to pay for it. Therefore it comes down to how good any polishing is and whether that bothers you. For sure that watch has been polished but doesn’t look bad. Somewhat to be expected of a watch that age being prepared for sale. Really comes down to the price you paid compared to others on the market.

The stretch isn’t great. Does it still wear well?

[HMHM]

I think you have probably pick it up yourself based on point 4. The lugs looked polished and has a rounded edge to it now. The bezel looks new too for a 2001 watch, likely a replacement insert?

[Tensai]

16710s have chamfer?

[dannyp]

Dead giveaway that it's been polished, to me, is how the tips of the spring bars almost appear to stick out beyond the lug holes in places.

[Napoleon]

That has definitely seen some substantial polishing. I feel like if you’re having those doubts, they are not going to go away. Best you send it back. I know it stinks but it will be tough to live with I think.

[csaltphoto]

Well yeah. With that amount of bracelet stretch there is no way the watch head would look like that without a polish. Photo's aren't good enough to really say about the lugs. Depends what you paid for it.

[1995akcoop]

Definitely polished… a little too mich to my liking. Corners are rounded especially on the crown guards


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[hitman23]

Unpolished chamfers

[SparklesMcgraw]

Crispy

[bellyen]

Thanks for all the helpful replies, confirms my thinking that it's definitely been decently polished. The bracelet is annoying too, though I might get a Jubilee for it if the GMT stays.

Still, having it for now confirms I'm definitely going to have to own a 16710.

Since this isn't really an investment watch, wondering now if it'd be worth it to get the case and bracelet brought closer to factory spec by LAWW or Rolliworks...

[Yaz]

Polished for sure.
Is the bezel aftermarket ?
It seems so.

But overall nice 16710. Wear it in good health!


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[SparklesMcgraw]

The crown on the bracelet is the best polishing giveaway. If smoother over and not sharp and pronounced, it’s polished. A good job is easier to hide on the lugs but you can’t hide the crown on the clasp

[Boaters]

Hey it has been polished and looks like a new insert no big deal. A little bit of bracelet stretch also but all and all a nice piece

[karleone]

It has been overpolished and chamfers are gone. Insert is fake. Bracelet has a lot of stretch. If the watch has been sold as unpolished it's a lie - I would return the watch and et a refund.

[OrangeSport]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Dead giveaway that it's been polished, to me, is how the tips of the spring bars almost appear to stick out beyond the lug holes in places.

I'm not an expert but that's the 1st thing I noticed...

[OrangeSport]

Originally Posted by bellyen

Thanks for all the helpful replies, confirms my thinking that it's definitely been decently polished. The bracelet is annoying too, though I might get a Jubilee for it if the GMT stays.

Still, having it for now confirms I'm definitely going to have to own a 16710.

Since this isn't really an investment watch, wondering now if it'd be worth it to get the case and bracelet brought closer to factory spec by LAWW or Rolliworks...

Overall, if you are buying it to wear it, it's a nice watch.. bit of stretch in the bracelet but that can be sorted or something else fitted. I wouldn't bother getting it reworked under those circumstances, at least not until it needs a service...

But, you paid for an unpolished / mint example. Bracelets are pricey and it has been polished. Can you get some cash back if you're keeping it?

[Chester01]

Too much $$ at steak and too much motivation to use "un polished". If you dont personally know the individual, and know them well. I would always be skeptical of anyone that uses the phrase unpolished. Remember the 5 digit references were worn as tools (i.e. prior to folks using their phone) and the "collecting" madness occurred. What that means it it was a matter of course that they were polished when they were serviced. If it has a service history, it was likely polished or at least "touched up".

[bellyen]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Too much $$ at steak and too much motivation to use "un polished". If you dont personally know the individual, and know them well. I would always be skeptical of anyone that uses the phrase unpolished. Remember the 5 digit references were worn as tools (i.e. prior to folks using their phone) and the "collecting" madness occurred. What that means it it was a matter of course that they were polished when they were serviced. If it has a service history, it was likely polished or at least "touched up".

Yeah, this is a good point and not one I'd considered. I think in this case I shrugged off some slightly fuzzy pics and put a bit too much faith in the words folks use to sell.

[pk552502]

Did the seller have multiple clear pictures of the watch when it was for sale? If so, you had the information available to you when you pulled the trigger. Pictures are more valuable than the description in some cases. What's their return policy that's listed on their website?

[Tools]

Looks like a nice example that has been touched up and cleaned for presentation for sale.

"Polished" has no true definition; it's insane to think that a watch a couple of decades old has not been cleaned up at some point.. What would "polished" even mean to most of us.

"Mint" also has no clear definition, but I would say that anything less than factory-new would not be mint.

16710's don't have much chamfer, doesn't matter if they are early holes or later through holes, they are the same.

Bracelet does not have a "ton of stretch". It looks pretty good for a 20 year old example

[illition]

After comparing a few, I think my Polar Explorer II is an example of a relatively unpolished crown guard, maybe not completely unpolished though.

That being said, I have a GMT Master II which has crown guard that look like yours.

[16610Swiss]

Originally Posted by hitman23

Unpolished chamfers

Delicious

[lamkinpark]

Definitely polished and the bezel insert is not genuine.

[THC]

Bezel insert is after market imo

[JonaG]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Dead giveaway that it's been polished, to me, is how the tips of the spring bars almost appear to stick out beyond the lug holes in places.

That’s what I noticed but sometimes watches have incorrect length spring bars so not always the full picture.

Originally Posted by SparklesMcgraw

The crown on the bracelet is the best polishing giveaway. If smoother over and not sharp and pronounced, it’s polished. A good job is easier to hide on the lugs but you can’t hide the crown on the clasp

I think by now many unscrupulous sellers have figured this out and now avoid polishing the clasp crown.

It’s a decent looking piece, I just don’t understand (we’ll, I do) why the seller felt the need to advertise “unpolished” when it could have sold on its own merits.

[TimeAZ]

Originally Posted by THC

Bezel insert is after market imo

My thoughts too.

As for the other aspects... yes, that is def. polished. It gives off an artificial look to my eye.

[TunaTuna]

If you got it for a price less than market, which I am guessing you did, then you are not going to get a mint unpolished piece and this looks about right. You have to spend more money to get a mint piece, which means like new

[springer]

Y serial numbers with lug hole cases are early to mid 2003 up to 2004.

The insert is not correct and should look like the one below.

As others mentioned, the case is polished and the bracelet has a little stretch. The watch is a fairly decent example as long as you didn't over pay for it.

[bellyen]

Originally Posted by TunaTuna

If you got it for a price less than market, which I am guessing you did, then you are not going to get a mint unpolished piece and this looks about right. You have to spend more money to get a mint piece, which means like new

100%. I paid below market, and I think it's reasonable to say I got what I paid for; the watch isn't in terrible shape and I've definitely seen worse.

Originally Posted by JonaG

It’s a decent looking piece, I just don’t understand (we’ll, I do) why the seller felt the need to advertise “unpolished” when it could have sold on its own merits.

But to this point, the thing that gets me and why I'll write the seller is it just wasn't as advertised. In my back-and-forth pre-purchase, they specifically said the lugs were "very sharp"...and they're not. I was naive and overly optimistic to think I could get what was marketed at the price I paid, just disappointed that it was listed and described as being in a condition it wasn't.