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Old 7 December 2022, 07:03 AM   #1
sakevi
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5513 WGS Potential Purchase

i have been perusing the FSOT for a while for my first vintage piece for daily wear and this 5513 caught my attention with the attractive patina and rich dark dial.

any huge red flags? states insert is later, any idea on MK/year? also curious as it has a 5512 caseback, which i have seen on a few listings. tried to look up a few guides but still very new to this and always trying to learn!
priced at 8500usd.
i'd attach the link but i'm still a n00b.

let me know what you guys think. thank you all for the constant invaluable resources and inspiration!
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Old 7 December 2022, 07:39 AM   #2
shammad10
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Happy to be corrected- but in my eyes-
Case looks over polished a bit and re-cut- based on the springbar protruding from the left top lug in the top pic. Also very close on the bottom left. Case has then been recut with chamfers.
Cannot tell about the right side as no photo there.
Crown guards look okay to me.

Yes there are some 5513 with 5512 casabacks from the early 80's
Looks like an original bicchierini dial with a nice lume, but some ?spots on it.
Yes replacement insert
Hands look like they may be the original hands, or they could be later tritium ones.
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Old 7 December 2022, 05:31 PM   #3
1675-David
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As mentioned very slim lugs.
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Old 8 December 2022, 12:02 AM   #4
Dan S
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A matter of personal taste, obviously, but I don't find the dramatically mismatched color of hands and dial to be very appealing.
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Old 8 December 2022, 02:33 AM   #5
hutch300
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This watch has been for sale for a while. The case is a deal breaker for me.
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Old 8 December 2022, 05:21 AM   #6
Arnozerosix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
A matter of personal taste, obviously, but I don't find the dramatically mismatched color of hands and dial to be very appealing.
this watch looks like it has been reassembled from parts found left and right.
One dial with mismatching hands, with service bezel non matching caseback, bezel new on thin case .....
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Old 9 December 2022, 01:44 PM   #7
indianmachine
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feel like I've seen this watch before, whose site is it on?
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Old 9 December 2022, 01:50 PM   #8
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For $8500, you kind of get what you pay for.
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Old 9 December 2022, 10:53 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Arnozerosix View Post
this watch looks like it has been reassembled from parts found left and right.
One dial with mismatching hands, with service bezel non matching caseback, bezel new on thin case .....
IMO 5512 caseback is perfectly fine here.
Regarding the hands, there seems to be a lot of collectors believing that this is perfectly fine for this period (no personal opinion here)
Service insert is unfortunately quite common on vintage sub and GMT…
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Old 9 December 2022, 10:55 PM   #10
XavierM
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For $8500, you kind of get what you pay for.
+1 and looking at some pieces, this one is not too bad in terms of pricing…
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Old 10 December 2022, 03:03 AM   #11
Arnozerosix
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IMO 5512 caseback is perfectly fine here.
Nope...I don't think so ...
It would be eventually fine for a watch from the 60ies, but not for a watch from the 80ies...

The 5512 reference was not existing anymore when Rolex introduced the bicchierini dial.... ( bicchierini dial was introduced approx 5 years after the 5512 was out of the line up)....

edit : for the service insert I am with you....
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Old 10 December 2022, 04:30 AM   #12
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Nope...I don't think so ...
It would be eventually fine for a watch from the 60ies, but not for a watch from the 80ies...

The 5512 reference was not existing anymore when Rolex introduced the bicchierini dial.... ( bicchierini dial was introduced approx 5 years after the 5512 was out of the line up)....

edit : for the service insert I am with you....
I agree with XavierM that 5512 caseback is a-ok here.
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Old 10 December 2022, 04:48 AM   #13
Arnozerosix
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I agree with XavierM that 5512 caseback is a-ok here.
I might be wrong, but I gave my counter argument :-)

I see no reason why a 5512 caseback would be on a watch assembled by rolex 5 years or more after the end of production of 5512.
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Old 10 December 2022, 10:15 AM   #14
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Rolex using an already produced stock of 5512 caseback.

If looking at big seller archives, you’ll see this is the standard configuration for 5513 at the end of production (impossible to have so many watches with a “wrong” caseback)
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Old 10 December 2022, 12:25 PM   #15
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feel like I've seen this watch before, whose site is it on?
25Dials

I could never get past that case
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Old 10 December 2022, 01:17 PM   #16
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The OP seems to have done a fly-by.
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Old 10 December 2022, 04:57 PM   #17
Arnozerosix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierM View Post
Rolex using an already produced stock of 5512 caseback.

If looking at big seller archives, you’ll see this is the standard configuration for 5513 at the end of production (impossible to have so many watches with a “wrong” caseback)
you 're certainly right , i found this with the same config ...
https://www.vintagewatches.it/en/pro...al-box-papers/

i new this was a std in the 60ies but i am surprise that even after end of production o 5512 they continued to use this ref caseback till late 80ies....
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Old 11 December 2022, 05:31 AM   #18
sakevi
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Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
The OP seems to have done a fly-by.
don’t worry, i’m still here dan 😀.
thanks all for your input, and some of the not so useful insight!

looking now i do notice the spring bars poking through the polished case.

is there any way to detail the age of the service insert? still learning!
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Old 11 December 2022, 06:44 AM   #19
harry in montreal
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It’s not bad. The insert looks very recent. What I suggest is look at HQMilton’s watches. You can look up 5513 and you get a pile. His photos are super consistent. Focus on the thickness of the lugs, the shape of the crown guards. The dial condition. The inserts. After looking at 100 watches, you begin to understand how to assess condition. Take some time
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Old 16 December 2022, 12:38 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierM View Post
Rolex using an already produced stock of 5512 caseback.

If looking at big seller archives, you’ll see this is the standard configuration for 5513 at the end of production (impossible to have so many watches with a “wrong” caseback)
I've seen both 5513s and 1680s with service '5512' casebacks.

I guess back in the day, they got replaced with whatever was on the shelf - as you suggest, probably a load of pre-produced stock.

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