ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
3 January 2024, 10:27 AM | #1 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Watch: Casio F91W
Posts: 928
|
Critique of Grand Seiko
I am on team Grand Seiko and Seiko, but I have some feedback that I think will help the brand.
1. Make the Grand Seiko sport line smaller. These watches are massive! They cut out very interested and profitable segments that also have smaller wrists. The Grand Seiko sport collection is basically all oversized and is far from aligned with industry averages (in my rough assessment). 2. Improve the functionality of most of the Grand Seiko watches. a.Allow micro adjustments on sport bracelets (or, rather, most or all GS bracelets) b.Use discreet lume on some of the dressier watches (similar to Rolex’s Datejust and Day-Date). 3. Rework pricing. $79,000 for a SBGZ009 dress watch on a leather strap is aggressive and not even remotely close to similar models from GS's competition. The high price point on the SBGZ009 or the more jaw-dropping $250,000 price point SBGD209 have to be an anchor for other high-volume models, rather than a legitimate valuation of these luxury watches’ worth. On the contrary, these insane prices might be an attempt to (unsuccessfully?) strong-army Grand Seiko into the ultra-premium watch category. I applaud the attempt, but other watches, such as a $201,080 Patek Philippe 5160/500G comes across as a superior watch at a lower price. I could list countless other watches at a tenth of the price that are likely equally satisfying to most collectors. 4. Stop cannibalizing. Grand Seiko Sport and Seiko Prospex are extremely similar lines. Yes, the price points might differ by roughly one order of magnitude, but Seiko Prospex has to be cannibalizing some of the higher-priced Grand Seiko sport market. Maybe consider settling for something in the middle that can be more profitable and that likewise meets market demands more effectively. 4. Make Grand Seiko more desirable. Grand Seiko resale value is poor compared to Rolex, Omega, Patek, and other brands. Look closely at those marketing strategies and consider adapting. Improved product placement? Sponsor more sports ventures? |
3 January 2024, 10:44 AM | #2 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 140
|
I would love all of their lines, not just the sport line, to be slimmed down. Take the famed Snowflake SBGA211G - at 12.5mm thick it's not the thickest watch out there, but slimming it down to 10-11 would do wonders on the wrist in my opinion. I just couldn't pull the trigger when I tried it on given the thickness.
|
3 January 2024, 11:18 AM | #3 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Watch: Casio F91W
Posts: 928
|
Quote:
|
|
3 January 2024, 12:44 PM | #4 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dc
Posts: 2,002
|
Micro adjustment please GS !
|
3 January 2024, 01:04 PM | #5 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Watch: Casio F91W
Posts: 928
|
The SBGJ237 may be water resistant to 200m, but it gets cold at depth, even in tropical climates; thus, the depth rating is useless without a diving extension or adjustment. I had a hard time fitting my 116610 over a wet suit and the grand Seiko would be impossible.
|
3 January 2024, 02:34 PM | #6 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vain
Posts: 6,023
|
Full disclosure: I currently own (6) Grand Seikos
That being said, they will never gain high level desirability in the luxury space sharing essentially the same name as a $99 gold plated quartz watch @ JC Penny's. They will attract horological enthusiasts and the such, but they're pricing themselves out of that level in pursuit of competition with the top luxury watch brands. Not going to happen. |
3 January 2024, 04:54 PM | #7 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Real Name: Basil
Location: Athens, GR
Watch: BoctokKomandirskie
Posts: 2,881
|
Quote:
On the subject now, I really wish GS continue as they do. They are improving their after sales services amd distribution network. I further hope they remain a poor resale value and a great, feature rich, high quality owning experience without the baggage of Rolex.
__________________
2FA Enabled |
|
3 January 2024, 09:51 PM | #8 | ||
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Watch: Casio F91W
Posts: 928
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
3 January 2024, 10:09 PM | #9 |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Carolina
Watch: Rolex/Others
Posts: 47,776
|
Interesting points. The brand needs to focus on what it does best and improve on what they do not do well, bracelets and clasps. I do believe GS has begun to fade in the eyes of collectors. This is because of the number of models and variations in the market and the crazy number of releases. I like the brand but am full.
Last edited by 1William; 3 January 2024 at 10:09 PM.. Reason: spelling |
3 January 2024, 10:18 PM | #10 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Real Name: Basil
Location: Athens, GR
Watch: BoctokKomandirskie
Posts: 2,881
|
Quote:
It's more of an exaggeration, in contrast to the "investment" allure of certain brand names. About the micro adjustments, it's admittedly a good feature to have but somewhat overrated imho. So many watches out there, even high end ones which do not offer such feature and no one complains about...
__________________
2FA Enabled |
|
4 January 2024, 02:11 AM | #11 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2022
Real Name: Ryan
Location: Evergreen State
Watch: 16710
Posts: 227
|
|
4 January 2024, 11:41 AM | #12 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Lambertville, NJ
Posts: 71
|
Quote:
Do you think completely removing any reference to Seiko from new/updated branding and going by simply “GS” would help? |
|
4 January 2024, 11:50 AM | #13 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: KY
Watch: A few.....
Posts: 3,796
|
|
5 January 2024, 12:04 AM | #14 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: Asia
Posts: 463
|
The MSRP on GS is ridiculous. It’s why I only buy GS preowned.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
5 January 2024, 06:14 PM | #15 |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,445
|
The only reason I do not currently own one is because I find them to be too thick. So that would be my only criticism.
|
5 January 2024, 09:04 PM | #16 | |||
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Watch: Casio F91W
Posts: 928
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If it was a 41mm chronograph, it could easily be less than 12mm thick. Instead it's 16.2mm thick. |
|||
5 January 2024, 11:45 PM | #17 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2021
Real Name: Michael
Location: Europe
Watch: UN,RolexTudor&more
Posts: 2,742
|
|
5 January 2024, 11:58 PM | #18 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Mike
Location: Downy Ocean Hon
Watch: my money leaving!
Posts: 13,792
|
Love the watches but why they continue to put out inferior bracelets and clasps is something I just don't understand. Their clasps feel like something that should be fitted on a standard Seiko and the lack of true on-the-fly micro adjustment is just not acceptable in 2024. And to me the one "signature" of the brand is the spring drive and the associated power reserve meter on the dial. Now they've started to remove this from newer watches. I know the PR indicator isn't everyone's cup of tea but it was something that was associated with the brand, like the cyclops on Rolex. I think removing it is a mistake.
Anyway, still love me SBGE253, and it's my one true travel watch, but no real intention of addeng any other Grand Seikos to the collection. The SD movement is an absolute marvel of technology and I plan to always keep one in my collection. I can take that watch with me on a 30 day cruise and know that when I get back it will be MAYBE a second off the true time. That's amazing. |
6 January 2024, 01:14 AM | #19 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Tennessee
Watch: GS SPGN029
Posts: 157
|
I was lucky to dial in a good fit with my SBGN029 bracelet, but for the life of me I can't understand why my Astron bracelet has an excellent taper and an on-the-fly adjustment with the clasp. Perhaps it's because the Astron bracelet is an integrated bracelet?
Still love GS and honestly don't care if some stranger thinks I picked it up on sale at JC Penney. I bought it for myself and not to impress someone else. |
6 January 2024, 10:30 AM | #20 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 1,151
|
I was close to buying the Skyflake and still may add to the collection further down the line but I hesitated for a number of reasons.
Firstly, it felt a little thick at ~13mm for what would be the dress watch of my collection. To put it into context my Polar is marginally slimmer than this. 19mm strap width also frustrating - I have a number of 20mm straps which would have worked perfectly. Clasp on this gets a bad write up, though didn’t have enough time to play around too much. I have read it’s possible to modify the deployant clasp to a pin and buckle which I’d have likely done. Long term reviews on the leather straps also concerned me - most users report that they swap these out as the OEM isn’t great. I can’t speak from experience on this. In the end, I got the call for the DJ41, so this killed off my pursuit of the Skyflake. There are other models such as the seasons collection which I think are nice, but if I’m spending that much money on a watch then I expect the bracelet and clasp to be better. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
7 January 2024, 03:52 AM | #21 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Real Name: Matt
Location: UK
Posts: 1,251
|
I own two GS and have managed to avoid the issues you describe by choosing wisely however pretty much agree with everything you say. There are so many models I have discounted due to the issue you mention.
The thickness, width and bracelet/clasp issues they really need to sort out on so many of their models. I quite like the fact it says Seiko on the dial I just don’t want it to have any of the attributes of a cheap Seiko when I’m paying Grand Seiko money lol |
7 January 2024, 08:44 AM | #22 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Watch: Shiny One
Posts: 5,450
|
|
7 January 2024, 10:07 AM | #23 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Here and there...
Posts: 1,902
|
Micro-adjust bracelets, more 36-38mm cases at or below 10mm thick with 100m+ WR. Oh, and make them all spring drive with the reserve indicator on the back please.
|
7 January 2024, 10:21 AM | #24 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Watch: Casio F91W
Posts: 928
|
|
7 January 2024, 04:00 PM | #25 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Watch: Shiny One
Posts: 5,450
|
|
7 January 2024, 08:53 PM | #26 |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 35,299
|
I appreciate the great movements, excellent finishing, wonderful dials and relative anonymity. For me, the positives far outweigh the small areas for improvement. No watch is perfect.
|
7 January 2024, 11:19 PM | #27 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 901
|
I appreciate some of their watches, others are too big. I wish they were thinner, if they were at 10-11mm Would probably by one.
I also wish they'd stop releasing so many limited editions/ country editions inspired by nature or whatever. It's just too much and decision fatigue really plays a part in stopping me buying one |
8 January 2024, 04:19 AM | #28 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: USA
Posts: 23
|
Love the GS GMT with the white dial.
|
8 January 2024, 10:39 AM | #29 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Watch: Casio F91W
Posts: 928
|
Quote:
No doubt. But is it sustainable without adaptation? These cheapie bracelets and 46mm cases didn't seem to resonate. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
|
|
8 January 2024, 06:53 PM | #30 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: Asia
Posts: 463
|
Adding on to my earlier comment about the MSRP of GS being ridiculous, however, I do think the bracelet as it is is pretty good despite its lack of an on the fly micro adjustment feature. And besides, a micro adjustable link will soon be available from Steel Reef for GS.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.