RSC did an unauthorized switch of Bezel Inserts

[116710er]

Man, RSC servicing just keeps paying dividends...some of you may remember the problems I went through with my 14060 and RSC. If not, you can read it here:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=637700

So to add to that thread, this 14060 had to go BACK to RSC AGAIN because the watch would sometimes stop when screwing the crown down. Consistently enough for me to be able to do it after a few attempts.

Once again, it disappeared into the RSC black hole for some time and it came back not too long ago with, as per usual, absolutely no information on what was done and/or replaced. When I got it back, I was able to get it to do the first time I tried but then I couldn't get it to do it again after that so I'm going to call that a fluke but I'm still not 100% that they fixed the problem.

Today, I was looking at some older photos of the watch and I realized something. RSC swapped out my perfectly good bezel insert with a service insert! This swap was completely unauthorized and, as a matter of fact, when they did the estimate, they suggested new insert and I SPECIFICALLY said NO. It appears that they did it on the first trip to RSC and I didn't notice probably because I specifically told them not to replace it (and I figured they wouldn't do that w/o charging me) and I was busy trying to deal with their incompetent servicing (not to mention that it was in RSC's possession for a good chunk of the year).

So what's the big deal you ask? The older insert was a era correct "flat four" (this was a one owner, never service 14060 when I purchased it). I get that it's not a 16610LV level "F4" bezel but that's not the point. The older insert was in perfect shape and it was era correct insert. Why would anyone change that?

For those with any inside knowledge (SearChart maybe?), what are the chances that RSC will be able to make this right and either recovering my insert or finding a suitable replacement?

I'm still trying to figure out why this would happen but I have my suspicions. Note that the RSC service manager was not able to find any notes on this being done (officially) but they were able to look up the infil and exfil photos and saw the insert was indeed swapped.

[Gmt21]

You need to make a big stink, ask to see the incoming and outgoing photos (they take them) - show them a photo of watch before service. I had a similar problem on a vintage cream dial explorer.....when I got it back from service they had changed the original tritium seconds hand to luminova!!! I had said change nothing. It took some months and a lot of back and forth, but the photos proved that the watch arrived original and left with a service hand. RSC Dallas messed up but they located a correct and matching seconds hand. Good luck

[Mr Perfect]

Oh my god

RSC will still have your old insert. Just ask them to swap it back.

[116710er]

The Service Manager has already confirmed that their incoming and outgoing photos don't match. Hopefully RSC will make this right but I SERIOUSLY have my doubts. I've never dealt with such an incompetent service center. I wouldn't expect this from Rolex.

Mr. Perfect, do you not feel that this is a big deal?

[gpf]

What RSC ??????

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by gpf

What RSC ??????

X 2

Also RSC Toronto provides a detailed estimate of the work to be done with sign off before anything is done.

[VintageVagabound]

They change it because they think they’re doing you a favor by making your watch look as new as possible. This is why you shouldn’t send a vintage (or near vintage) watch to them. How many times has somebody asked to keep the tritium hands or not polish and they do it anyway.

In your case I hope they can at least return the original insert to you since you asked that it not be replaced but you’re not the first and won’t be the last that deals with these issues

[GreatScott]

They probably damaged it so they changed it out for free, thinking they were doing the right thing.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[116710er]

This was sent to Lititz, PA. They said that they would send back a period correct one but I'm still not happy about that. This was a one owner, never serviced all original watch.

Yeah, one of my theories is that they did damage or break it on removal. When I sent it in, the insert was definitely not damaged in any way. It wasn't new, but it was in mint condition. There was absolutely no reason to change it... I even stated that when I first got the estimate when they suggested a new insert.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. :/

[Chewbacca]

Jeebus.

[watchmaker]

I suggest you learn to repair watches so you need never run the risk of a mistake ever happening again.

Seriously though, a mistake happened (as someone else said most likely the old insert was accidentally damaged), and a solution has been proposed. Crisis over.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

I suggest you learn to repair watches so you need never run the risk of a mistake ever happening again.

Seriously though, a mistake happened (as someone else said most likely the old insert was accidentally damaged), and a solution has been proposed. Crisis over.

Hypothetically if the original insert was damaged, and we don't truly know there is absolutely no reason why RSC couldn't provide an explanation. Especially since the OP insisted on wanting to keep his period correct original insert. We are talking about an aluminum bezel insert here. How would a professional watchmaker damage one anyway? Unless he was ham handed. Plenty of folks here have removed and installed the older 5 digit bezels as a DIY procedure. Personally I would be pissed myself.

[kyo86sg]

I hope RSC can provide a proper and reasonable explanation otherwise just write a complaint email to Rolex HQ in swiss.

I would be frustrated as well.

[Anamelistic]

Excuse my ignorance but I'm still new here, are there any other watchmakers you could send to that are trusted in order to have your Rolex serviced? It sounds like it was well out of warranty anyway so would a place like RolliWorks (or whatever) would have been able to fix an issue like this??

[Robtayham]

Originally Posted by 116710er

Man, RSC servicing just keeps paying dividends...some of you may remember the problems I went through with my 14060 and RSC. If not, you can read it here:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=637700

So to add to that thread, this 14060 had to go BACK to RSC AGAIN because the watch would sometimes stop when screwing the crown down. Consistently enough for me to be able to do it after a few attempts.

Once again, it disappeared into the RSC black hole for some time and it came back not too long ago with, as per usual, absolutely no information on what was done and/or replaced. When I got it back, I was able to get it to do the first time I tried but then I couldn't get it to do it again after that so I'm going to call that a fluke but I'm still not 100% that they fixed the problem.

Today, I was looking at some older photos of the watch and I realized something. RSC swapped out my perfectly good bezel insert with a service insert! This swap was completely unauthorized and, as a matter of fact, when they did the estimate, they suggested new insert and I SPECIFICALLY said NO. It appears that they did it on the first trip to RSC and I didn't notice probably because I specifically told them not to replace it (and I figured they wouldn't do that w/o charging me) and I was busy trying to deal with their incompetent servicing (not to mention that it was in RSC's possession for a good chunk of the year).

So what's the big deal you ask? The older insert was a era correct "flat four" (this was a one owner, never service 14060 when I purchased it). I get that it's not a 16610LV level "F4" bezel but that's not the point. The older insert was in perfect shape and it was era correct insert. Why would anyone change that?

For those with any inside knowledge (SearChart maybe?), what are the chances that RSC will be able to make this right and either recovering my insert or finding a suitable replacement?

I'm still trying to figure out why this would happen but I have my suspicions. Note that the RSC service manager was not able to find any notes on this being done (officially) but they were able to look up the infil and exfil photos and saw the insert was indeed swapped.

You know, things happen. Talk to Rolex and work out a solution.

It’s not like the watch was 100% original. So, it won’t hurt the value to install another era correct bezel.

[116710er]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

I suggest you learn to repair watches so you need never run the risk of a mistake ever happening again.

Seriously though, a mistake happened (as someone else said most likely the old insert was accidentally damaged), and a solution has been proposed. Crisis over.

If this was just a single issue, I could excuse it as human error...but MULTIPLE mistakes on the same watch? Where's Rolex's QC? Where's the watchmaker's own personal QC? The solution proposed doesn't make it whole as I've explained previously. And going back to the intial problem (a poor service job), was there ANY QC? How does a customer end up with a poorly serviced watch? Did they not check it at the service center before it shipped out? Why didn't the local RSC check it before handing it to the customer? I think their MO is to do a half-ass job from the get go and just hope that the customer doesn't have a way to double check their work and/or won't notice. And if something does go wrong, they hide behind their wall of no information. To me, it seems like it's more about turnover, not quality. As for the insert, I have a suspicion that it wasn't damaged or change by "mistake", it was done on purpose.

Originally Posted by Robtayham

It’s not like the watch was 100% original. So, it won’t hurt the value to install another era correct bezel.

Actually, it was 100% original, one owner as I stated previously.

Originally Posted by kyo86sg

I hope RSC can provide a proper and reasonable explanation otherwise just write a complaint email to Rolex HQ in swiss.

Based on previous dealings, I doubt they're going to explain anything. When they had to re-service the watch, the invoice only said "Check Movement". When they had to fix the movement stopping issue, they only said "Check Movement". Lol, RSC wants to keep you the dark as much as possible. I have absolutely no idea what they did to fix the previous issues and I'm sure they won't provide any info on this issue.

Originally Posted by Anamelistic

Excuse my ignorance but I'm still new here, are there any other watchmakers you could send to that are trusted in order to have your Rolex serviced? It sounds like it was well out of warranty anyway so would a place like RolliWorks (or whatever) would have been able to fix an issue like this??

Yes, there are other watch service centers what work on Rolex watches but Rolex make it tough on these independents by highly restricting their ability to obtain parts for repair and in turn, makes the parts expensive for the customer. Basically they're creating a situation so that you're FORCED to go through RSC and RSC only. Yes, the watch's original warranty was long expired. If you read the other thread (in the first post), you'll see how this all started. This bezel insert issue is just ANOTHER issue I'm having with RSC...all on the same watch.

In retrospect, I ABSOLUTELY should have sent it to Rolliworks (or another independent) instead and for any future services (outside of in-warranty issues), I have no plans to send anything to RSC. They've proven that their QC is lacking (and that's being very generous)

[Rolex tom]

Well that sucks. I would say though that the bezel insert was more than likely damaged when removing it or by some other means and they just swapped it out without giving a second thought. They should however of informed you the customer of this. I doubt they changed it for the sake it, no big watch house is just gives away a free bezel insert and spends the time changing it for nothing. As for you first experience with the watch not performing as it should that’s just poor workmanship in my opinion

[Robtayham]

Originally Posted by 116710er

Actually, it was 100% original, one owner as I stated previously.

My bad. I define ‘era correct’ as a bezel that is correct for the era, but not originally installed on the watch. In other words, new old stock. That’s different than original ‘born on the watch’ bezel. And it’s also different than new authentic Rolex bezel.

Also, the fact that it’s ‘one owner’ has no bearing on anything. If that owner told you ‘era correct’, then he meant it wasn’t originally on the watch when it was manufactured. So, did he use that defined term, or did you use it by mistake?

[116710er]

Originally Posted by Robtayham

My bad. I define ‘era correct’ as a bezel that is correct for the era, but not originally installed on the watch. In other words, new old stock. That’s different than original ‘born on the watch’ bezel. And it’s also different than new authentic Rolex bezel.

Also, the fact that it’s ‘one owner’ has no bearing on anything. If that owner told you ‘era correct’, then he meant it wasn’t originally on the watch when it was manufactured. So, did he use that defined term, or did you use it by mistake?

Yeah that was my bad then. It was original to the watch. The original owner never changed anything on the watch nor did he have anyone work on the watch.

Originally Posted by Rolex tom

I doubt they changed it for the sake it, no big watch house is just gives away a free bezel insert and spends the time changing it for nothing. As for you first experience with the watch not performing as it should that’s just poor workmanship in my opinion

Well I wonder how "secure" those old parts are once they leave the watch and to what extent the techs can "retain" parts for their own use. I find it hard to believe that Rolex trained watchmaker could break an aluminum insert that a ton of "non-tech" watch owners seem to able to install and remove with ease (myself included).

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by 116710er

Well I wonder how "secure" those old parts are once they leave the watch and to what extent the techs can "retain" parts for their own use. I find it hard to believe that Rolex trained watchmaker could break an aluminum insert that a ton of "non-tech" watch owners seem to able to install and remove with ease (myself included).

When a service centre handles thousands of watches a year there will statistically be some casualties due to heavy handedness and some due to existing damage (such as chips or cracks that are impossible to see when the part is fitted). It is a near certainty this is what happened.

You seem pretty convinced it was theft...why?

Why would someone risk their career over stealing a customer's bezel insert? Even if someone wanted a period correct one for themselves hundreds of them per year end up in the bin where the owner has agreed to change the insert*, why would anybody steal yours?

To suggest theft without a shred of evidence is petty at best and malicious at worst.

*To be clear, I am not suggesting that this is common practice, simply that anybody with even just two brain cells would do this over stealing from a customer. The amount of trust placed in watchmakers and technicians is something we do not take for granted. No trust; no job!

[116710er]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Why would someone risk their career over stealing a customer's bezel insert? Even if someone wanted a period correct one for themselves hundreds of them per year end up in the bin where the owner has agreed to change the insert*, why would anybody steal yours?

You seem pretty convinced that all watch techs are saints.

I've had ASC service techs (automotive) try to steal valve caps off my car. I mean freakin' tire valve caps. They are factory aluminum ones and the tech tried to swap them with plastic ones. When I went back, they didn't dig them out of the trash, they went into the back room and "recovered" them. So if there are people willing to steal $12.00 valve cap covers (yes, twelve dollars), I would image there are crooked watch techs that are willing to do you a favor by replacing your 20 year old, mint condition, but apparently "outdated" $$$$ vintage (or vintage adjacent) inserts for shiny brand new service replacements ones cuz you know those are in high demand.

I'm not saying that this *is* what happened, but I think it's as plausible as a Rolex trained tech (aren't they CW21's?) damaging a insert during service.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by 116710er

You seem pretty convinced that all watch techs are saints.

I've had ASC service techs (automotive) try to steal valve caps off my car. I mean freakin' tire valve caps. They are factory aluminum ones and the tech tried to swap them with plastic ones. When I went back, they didn't dig them out of the trash, they went into the back room and "recovered" them. So if there are people willing to steal $12.00 valve cap covers (yes, twelve dollars), I would image there are crooked watch techs that are willing to do you a favor by replacing your 20 year old, mint condition, but apparently "outdated" $$$$ vintage (or vintage adjacent) inserts for shiny brand new service replacements ones cuz you know those are in high demand.

I'm not saying that this *is* what happened, but I think it's as plausible as a Rolex trained tech (aren't they CW21's?) damaging a insert during service.

Not suggesting there won’t be a few bad apples. But it is incredibly unlikely someone would choose to steal something from a customer when they could pick the same thing out of the bin/scrap parts box. (Unless they want to get caught eventually. Perhaps they have a Thomas Crown type character working there)

No degree of training prevents all unintended breakages. And that is assuming it was the watchmaker/technicians fault to begin with. Many parts can cool structurally sound until you proceed to disassemble it further.

[R G]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

When a service centre handles thousands of watches a year there will statistically be some casualties due to heavy handedness and some due to existing damage (such as chips or cracks that are impossible to see when the part is fitted). It is a near certainty this is what happened.

You seem pretty convinced it was theft...why?

Why would someone risk their career over stealing a customer's bezel insert? Even if someone wanted a period correct one for themselves hundreds of them per year end up in the bin where the owner has agreed to change the insert*, why would anybody steal yours?

To suggest theft without a shred of evidence is petty at best and malicious at worst.

*To be clear, I am not suggesting that this is common practice, simply that anybody with even just two brain cells would do this over stealing from a customer. The amount of trust placed in watchmakers and technicians is something we do not take for granted. No trust; no job!

Firstly, come on, I don’t think for one second that, anyone, at RSC would be worried about losing their job - Rolex service centre seem to be a law on to their own and well and truly up their own arses to give a flying one about the repercussions.

Secondly, it’s fantastic that you feel the way you do about clients trust and poor job, no job ethos. Sadly, I don’t think that’s shared within RSC.

Your sentiments about casualties within statistics wouldn’t wash with me. I’d love to have RSC advise me of those findings.

[116710er]

Just for reference, here's what the original insert looked like when it was turn into RSC. As you can clearly see, so much wear and tear that it OBVIOUSLY was in DIRE need of replacement...

[Mr Perfect]

Originally Posted by 116710er

Just for reference, here's what the original insert looked like when it was turn into RSC. As you can clearly see, so much wear and tear that it OBVIOUSLY was in DIRE need of replacement...

It does look quite badly scratched in fairness. RSC did you a favour - I would accept the gesture and move on

[116710er]

Originally Posted by Mr Perfect

It does look quite badly scratched in fairness. RSC did you a favour - I would accept the gesture and move on

LOL. RSC definitely didn't do me a favor.

[Mr Perfect]

Originally Posted by 116710er

LOL. RSC definitely didn't do me a favor.

Boo hoo.

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by 116710er

This was sent to Lititz, PA. They said that they would send back a period correct one but I'm still not happy about that. This was a one owner, never serviced all original watch.

Yeah, one of my theories is that they did damage or break it on removal. When I sent it in, the insert was definitely not damaged in any way. It wasn't new, but it was in mint condition. There was absolutely no reason to change it... I even stated that when I first got the estimate when they suggested a new insert.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. :/

Isn’t the Lititz RSC essentially a ‘training’ center for future Rolex watchmakers? I would never send my watch there for that reason alone.

[037]

Originally Posted by ronricks

Isn’t the Lititz RSC essentially a ‘training’ center for future Rolex watchmakers? I would never send my watch there for that reason alone.

Downstairs is the training center for both students and those gaining Rolex certs. Upstairs is the RSC, where students have absolutely no access granted. The chance of a student working on a customer's watch is zero.

Lititz RSC is where Rolex USA sends nearly all 4030/4130 calibers for service.

[116710er]

Originally Posted by Mr Perfect

Boo hoo.

So you'd be ok with RSC changing out parts of value on your watch and replace them with parts are much less value without your express permission? Lol...new guy...