Thoughts on the condition of this vintage sub?

[Eph]

I'm very actively looking at some vintage Tudor subs and found one, but the photos leave me with some questions.

My first question is about the dial's aging. Here's a photo:
The aging (30 years) seems to have the "Swiss" lettering fading away, or into the lume. Is this kind of aging normal? I wish the lettering was crisper, but I don't know much about whether or not this kind of aging is normal, advanced, desired, frowned upon, etc.
Also, any other thoughts on the condition of this dial?

Second question is about the lugs. The seller says it wasn't polished, but it seems to me that maybe there was a polishing a while back as the springbars seem to be different depths from the lug holes. I'm very inexperienced here, so I'm seeking some thoughts from someone who may know more about this than me. Here are some photos of the different lug holes:


Seems like the springbar isn't far from popping out (bottom right)


Same as above, seems like the springbar isn't far from popping out (top right)


Seems like the spring bar is more recessed than in the other photos (top left)


Looks like the springbar is healthily recessed in the lug (bottom left)

Lastly, how's this for 30-year stretch? I know a jeweler who can fix this up nicely, but I'd factor the price of that into my negotiations if this is considered a lot of stretch.


Or, any other thoughts on the condition of this watch, given that it's 30 years old? Anything I can do short of a polish or dial restoration (which I'm not interested in) to make it a nice keeper, as I want to hang on to this for a long long time? It's recently been serviced, too.

I really appreciate all your input and expertise here as I'm just beginning to get into this world!

Thanks!

[Dan S]

Why are the lume plots in all different places? Two lollipops (5 and 7), and others with various gaps. That seems like a huge red-flag.

You're over-thinking the spring-bar issues. They move back and forth. The case and bracelet look fine, but I'm surprised that a folded link bracelet is only 30 years old.

[watchlovr]

T swiss T covered with lume?
The factory would not have dome that surely?

[offrdmania]

Most likely a re-lume job. A bad one at that

[Eph]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Why are the lume plots in all different places? Two lollipops (5 and 7), and others with various gaps. That seems like a huge red-flag.

You're over-thinking the spring-bar issues. They move back and forth. The case and bracelet look fine, but I'm surprised that a folded link bracelet is only 30 years old.

Re-lume job a few others are saying. This wouldn't be a result of bubbling or just the lume being moved by an older dial peeling?

As for the bracelet, I'm not sure what you mean. Were they decommissioned more than 30 years ago?

Thanks!

[Dan S]

Yes, I was also suggesting a re-lume, or worse. It would not have left the factory that way, and lume plots don't just float around. Not sure what you mean by bubbling or peeling, but I don't see anything like that anyway.

I'm not as familiar with Tudor, but I believe Rolex folded link bracelets were replaced by solid-link versions in the mid-70s.

The sloppy re-lume would bother me.

[Kingface66]

Not sure what “bubbling lume” or “dial peeling“ are, but if there was any manner of distress to the lume, I doubt they would still look so well-defined and round. Trust the wisdom of those who have already commented.

And yes, folded link bracelets gave way to solid bracelets in the mid-70s

[linesiders]

I don't think it is a relume job, These plots are like the Pillsbury Dough Boy, Plump biscuits .

Need better photos though to know for sure. What is the serial?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by linesiders

I don't think it is a relume job, These plots are like the Pillsbury Dough Boy, Plump biscuits .

Need better photos though to know for sure. What is the serial?

The lume plots in your photo are blobby, but at least they are all located in approximately the same place relative to the outer track. Maybe my standards are too high for Tudor ... I will look at some photos.

[Eph]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Not sure what “bubbling lume” or “dial peeling“ are, but if there was any manner of distress to the lume, I doubt they would still look so well-defined and round. Trust the wisdom of those who have already commented.

And yes, folded link bracelets gave way to solid bracelets in the mid-70s

Interesting! This serial puts it in 1989.

[Kingsking]

I have an 84 76100 it comes on a folded link bracelet too which is the correct bracelet for the watch.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Kingsking

I have an 84 76100 it comes on a folded link bracelet too which is the correct bracelet for the watch.

Wow, interesting. Does it have a date code on the clasp?

[Kingsking]

Originally Posted by dan s

wow, interesting. Does it have a date code on the clasp?

h

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The lume plots in your photo are blobby, but at least they are all located in approximately the same place relative to the outer track. Maybe my standards are too high for Tudor ... I will look at some photos.

There is a trick on the lume on these that I will not go on in public. The OPs dial looks to have it - as poor as the photos are. I think it is legit.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by linesiders

There is a trick on the lume on these that I will not go on in public. The OPs dial looks to have it - as poor as the photos are. I think it is legit.

You might get a pm request someday.

[alwayshere]

as much as I agree that the dial is likely genuine, the quality isn't the best. Looks like the lume print vs. dial position was slightly off and hence the slightly misaligned result.

there are better examples out there unless the price is right on this.

[sutats]

The reality is that overall the watch appears to be in really good condition for its age otherwise it's a matter of accepting or not the integrity of the seller on the true advertised condition of the watch. It's not everyday one comes across a vintage Tudor in a similarly crisp condition.

The lume application seems to be offset lower in relation to the dial position and been let out the factory that way however that may be grounds for negotiation if that doesn't bother you.

[roh123]

I like the watch and agree with linesiders regarding the lume.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The lume plots in your photo are blobby, but at least they are all located in approximately the same place relative to the outer track. Maybe my standards are too high for Tudor ... I will look at some photos.

Standards too high?

You're down here was us, pal. Standards have nothing to do with it.

[rolexest]

Do you have a shot of the movement? I question this one...

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Standards too high?

You're down here was us, pal. Standards have nothing to do with it.

Second time you've quoted that same post of mine. I think you may have misunderstood my comment, and I apologize if it wasn't stated well. I believe you when you say that you are aware of a "tell" for Tudor lume.

I only meant to say that I normally expect that watches from a good manufacturer will have reasonably well-aligned lume plots and not be mis-printed like that. But that perhaps I am asking too much from Tudor. I am not so familiar with Tudor, but I certainly wouldn't expect something like that from Rolex.

Or maybe you're just joking and saying you agree with me? I don't know, I guess I don't understand your comment. Are you pissed off at me for some reason?

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Second time you've quoted that same post of mine. I think you may have misunderstood my comment, and I apologize if it wasn't stated well. I believe you when you say that you are aware of a "tell" for Tudor lume.

I only meant to say that I normally expect that watches from a good manufacturer will have reasonably well-aligned lume plots and not be mis-printed like that. But that perhaps I am asking too much from Tudor. I am not so familiar with Tudor, but I certainly wouldn't expect something like that from Rolex.

Or maybe you're just joking and saying you agree with me? I don't know, I guess I don't understand your comment. Are you pissed off at me for some reason?

Hahaha - Probably accidentally quoted you twice - I am multitasking a/k/a the Fine Art of Doing Multiple Things Poorly ; ) . Not upset at all.

Rolex had printing issues with lume as well over time. They resolved some of that by moving to the White Gold Surrounds. Late 1950s Rolex would take a Rolex Submariner case off the assembly line, cross it out, and place Tudor inscriptions on it and ship it as a Tudor - not often but it is documented. 1960s Rolex has dials where they printed on top of embedded gilt writing, where they added extra lume dots (Exclamation Dials ; ) ) to signify something different.

Too many people make the mistake of putting 2010-2020 Rolex Quality concerns / standards and applying them to 50s - 80s Rolex or Tudor quality. 1960 Rolex and Tudor were Tool Watches with a more extreme Sport line and a more dress line. In 1963 Rolex or Tudor would take a dial (incidentally made by a separate company that also made parts for Omega and countless other companies) and mod it. 2020 Rolex would throw the dial out and put in another dial, made by its own internal manufacturing processes.

[Gary Busey]

It does look a tad overpolished. A unpolished watch will not have the springbars so close to the “surface”

[Kingsking]

Originally Posted by Gary Busey

It does look a tad overpolished. A unpolished watch will not have the springbars so close to the “surface”

I think the case looks real sharp for a watch it's age, spring bars could be wrong size,cut bad or just loose moving side to side.

[XavierM]

Originally Posted by Gary Busey

It does look a tad overpolished. A unpolished watch will not have the springbars so close to the “surface”

Hard to tell, by looking at the spring bar... Could be wrong spring bars for the watch (wrong size).
IMO the case is very nice, polished or not polished I can not say, but probably very close to when it left the factory.

These lumeplots are funny, looks like everything is moved slightly down and right, with approximately the same amount of displacement.

Kind Regards,

[zapokee]

Springbar positioning doesn't mean a thing in judgment of case condition. They shift from left to right, and might be the wrong ones for the watch.

You need to look at the positioning of the lug holes relative to the case edges, and the sharpness of the lug hole rim. And the chamfers. And the width of the lugs. And the lug tips at the front and back. And how the side of the case reflects light. And the crown guards. And a bunch of other stuff. Forget springbars.

[rootbeer7]

Case and bracelet look ok for a tool watch of its age. I’m not qualified enough to comment on the dial except to say that the Tudor lume application at that at that time wasn’t as perfect as Rolex. There’s some great advice above.

[CPRWATCH]

I think I have a similar Tudor to yours , it’s a 89 79090 & the serial number begins with 27xxx & it looks to be in a similar condition to yours so here’s some comparison pictures that might help . The bracelet & end links were replaced on its last visit to Rolex RSC , but the dial is original & yours looks to be in great condition given the age , remember these were Rolex’s cheaper cousin after all . Apologies for the quality of the pictures , I have to resize them to post .

[ratty]

Originally Posted by CPRWATCH

I think I have a similar Tudor to yours , it’s a 89 79090 & the serial number begins with 27xxx & it looks to be in a similar condition to yours so here’s some comparison pictures that might help . The bracelet & end links were replaced on its last visit to Rolex RSC , but the dial is original & yours looks to be in great condition given the age , remember these were Rolex’s cheaper cousin after all . Apologies for the quality of the pictures , I have to resize them to post .

Very nice, I really like this watch.