What happened to

[Moondoggy]

Panerai, did they start the big watch trend....maybe, well now almost costume jewellery. The big two squashed them???

[enjoythemusic]

Panerai is doing great! Not sure if they 'started' the big watch thing, yet sure does seen that way as recall the whole Stalone saga when it was happened waaaay back when. A few friends got them back then who were also muscular workout guys. Not sure exactly who the 'big two' are you insinate, yet if they are who i'm thinking then Panerai has nothing to worry about.

Also, Panerai is now creating movements in-house. Doing wonderful work with creative / advanced materials for cases, too, that neither other maufacturer is doing. Then there's the 8 year warranty. What warranty do the other 'big two' offer?

So all in all, Panerai is doing great work, and service, for mechanical timepiece enthusiasts globally. jmho

[Ravager135]

Everyone knows the Stallone story which brought Panerai back into the forefront. They certainly benefited off the "big watch trend" in the last decade, but they also had a solid lineup of watches that looked good and had reliable ETA movements. Developing their own in house movements was the next step and I think they have largely been successful. The "problems" the brand is experiencing right now (acknowledging that they are one of the most recognizable and successful brands on the market), is that they may be "over-innovating" in some areas, cutting costs in some of the wrong places on their entry level offerings, and releasing too many special editions which make their way into regular production in a year or two as a very similar reference.

If you want a large watch, looking at IWC or Panerai makes sense because that is what they have always done. Breitling suffered more from the "big watch trend" because they basically just enlarged their classic offerings to larger proportions and lost sense of their brand heritage. They have only recently righted the ship. I have been a huge fan of what they have done in the past 2-3 years. Panerai on the other hands doesn't need to worry about the sizes of their pieces. They need to simplify dials and materials in my opinion. It wouldn't take much to put Panerai back on the right track. In the meantime, they still have a lot of references that aren't too difficult to get. Aside from the real haute horology brands (PP, AP, VC, ALS) and after Rolex, Panerai is probably right there with Omega, IWC, Breitling. Most other brands would kill for that pole position.

[Moondoggy]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

Everyone knows the Stallone story which brought Panerai back into the forefront. They certainly benefited off the "big watch trend" in the last decade, but they also had a solid lineup of watches that looked good and had reliable ETA movements. Developing their own in house movements was the next step and I think they have largely been successful. The "problems" the brand is experiencing right now (acknowledging that they are one of the most recognizable and successful brands on the market), is that they may be "over-innovating" in some areas, cutting costs in some of the wrong places on their entry level offerings, and releasing too many special editions which make their way into regular production in a year or two as a very similar reference.

If you want a large watch, looking at IWC or Panerai makes sense because that is what they have always done. Breitling suffered more from the "big watch trend" because they basically just enlarged their classic offerings to larger proportions and lost sense of their brand heritage. They have only recently righted the ship. I have been a huge fan of what they have done in the past 2-3 years. Panerai on the other hands doesn't need to worry about the sizes of their pieces. They need to simplify dials and materials in my opinion. It wouldn't take much to put Panerai back on the right track. In the meantime, they still have a lot of references that aren't too difficult to get. Aside from the real haute horology brands (PP, AP, VC, ALS) and after Rolex, Panerai is probably right there with Omega, IWC, Breitling. Most other brands would kill for that pole position.

Good point, I was probably thinking they were higher up the ladder then Omega, IWC, Breitling at one stage, maybe the weren't, considering they had to be reinvented they hit the scene big time and you make a good point they lost their DNA a little with limited this limited that etc.
I remember the 1950 "Fiddy" was a super hot piece now you can get plenty around the 14k mark, I remember early 2000's I thought this piece is going places be worth 30k++.

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

Good point, I was probably thinking they were higher up the ladder then Omega, IWC, Breitling at one stage, maybe the weren't, considering they had to be reinvented they hit the scene big time and you make a good point they lost their DNA a little with limited this limited that etc.
I remember the 1950 "Fiddy" was a super hot piece now you can get plenty around the 14k mark, I remember early 2000's I thought this piece is going places be worth 30k++.

I mean this is all subjective right? After to the real top tier brands, I’d easily place Rolex as the king of “upper middle class” watches. They aren’t AP, PP, VC, ALS, or maybe even JLC. To me those are the top tier aside from niche brands like RM, FPJ, etc. Nothing against either of those brands, I’m not just not as certain about their longevity in the watch game, particularly Richard Mille.

So after Rolex, for me, I always figured Panerai and IWC were neck in neck in terms of comparability. Both have a WW2 combat heritage, oversized design language, are offered mostly on leather straps, sit side by side at most ADs, have non-Swiss design influence (Italian/German), similar quality, similar timeline of rollout of in house movements across their entire catalog. Anecdotally, after Rolex, Panerai is the brand I see most in the wild. IWC just doesn’t seem as popular here in the States as Panerai is. Panerai has a connotation as being a little more loud and obnoxious whereas IWC is more conservative.

I think Breitling is a step behind both brands along with Omega. I think Breitling hurt themselves a lot in the past decade and are now recovering nicely. Their new Navitimers and Chronomats are perfect. Omega, has every right to claim they are as good as the aforementioned brands. Their co-axial movement is outstanding. Omega just never gets the respect other brands do. Part of that is unjust, the other part is finishing. If you’ve ever held an Omega and any of the other brands I’ve discussed, the Omega just doesn’t have the same feel.

[Moondoggy]

Good points, the top two for me are Rolex and Patek purely based off history, consistency, demand, auction results etc...no doubt Rolex's long term plan is to climb into PP territory I have no doubt or at least give it a nudge over time.

I used to think Panerai were a notch above IWC, now I think IWC are a notch or two above Panerai. I remember when Panerai "found" 50/100/150 or so Rolex movements in the attic my memory is sketchy they put them in a 1950 case I think they retailed for 20ish (chosen clients) and hit the grey market for 100+ quickly then later on the tourbillon.... oh my totally lost it imo, may have been the marketing guru Bonati.

Anyway thanks for rant.

Cheers