insane numbers from recent Phillips auction

[woowoo]

You guys see the insanely high numbers from the recent Phillips auction?

I guess nothing new for anyone in this hobby over the past few years. But always kind of shocking to see the prices these watches actually sell for (and not just a placeholder listing on Chrono24 where you’re not sure if they are really selling at that price).

As usual the real crazy money went to Pateks and Rolex. But looks like half the auction, from all brands, went way over estimates.

https://www.phillips.com/auctions/auction/NY080120

[Fleetlord]

The BIG money from other passion asset classes (art..cars..etc) have wandered over to watches and see them as absolute bargains, so their essentially limitless funds will be directed towards horological trophies.

[Watchflair]

Crazy that pieces without the provenance brought what they brought -


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[RW16610]

A lot of very special watches went up for sale here. In some cases I'm not surprised and enjoyed following the results. Some very lucky individuals must be very excited, I'm sure.

[JonaG]

How come Lot 12 the Zenith El Primero est 4-6k yet sold for $37,800!?

[The Joker]

Crazy prices, must of been a feeding frenzy. Think there will be some buyers remorse.

Seems everything went for more than the estimate, except the lot to meet Sir Jackie Stewart.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by JonaG

How come Lot 12 the Zenith El Primero est 4-6k yet sold for $37,800!?

"accompanied by original presentation box and literature"

[330ci]

Originally Posted by The Joker

"accompanied by original presentation box and literature"

It’s a 40yr old tropical watch that was never going to go anywhere near it’s estimate

[Jay (Eire)]

I’ve followed / attended / participated in auctions for 6-7 years actively. Phillips B&R since they entered the space have always marketed very well, have always appeared to have better curated and higher quality lots and as a result have always seemed to achieve higher prices.

But this auction, and on average this seasons auctions from the other houses, have seemed to turn up crazier and crazier results.

This is great for the auction houses, and there are many good people involved in those houses so good for them too. But, I really don’t know how some of these results actually happen especially when they are for pieces that are really nothing special.

[enjoythemusic]

Perhaps it's a combination of cash being trash and negative-yielding debt exceeding $18 trillion ($18,000,000,000,000). Add to that, trillions of new government handouts and central bank 'debt' being released each year for the foreseeable future. So yes, cash is trash. Obviously no smart investor would ever keep cash or hold onto government debt, and thus these actions make alternative investing a very good choice.

Have you noticed housing prices in areas where there's low tax burden? Within the USA billionaires are running away from Cali, NY, NJ, Il, etc, and going to TX, FL, etc where there's no State income tax. Frankly, am surprised anyone still lives in EU / UK with their highly oppressive tax structures.

So yes, alternative investments such as timepieces, rare musical instruments (Neil Peart's drumset went for $500,000 recently), Banksey / artwork... and timepieces are smart alternatives to retaining the value of your hard work efforts.

[sgwatchguy]

No shortage of moneyed dimwits in my opinion.

[woowoo]

You sound like an AM radio politics show bro. Chill out. Also get your facts right.

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Obviously no smart investor would ever keep cash or hold onto government debt, and thus these actions make alternative investing a very good choice.

Wrong.

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Have you noticed housing prices in areas where there's low tax burden? Within the USA billionaires are running away from Cali, NY, NJ, Il, etc, and going to TX, FL, etc where there's no State income tax. Frankly, am surprised anyone still lives in EU / UK with their highly oppressive tax structures.

Also misleading. Turns out billionaires don't care about taxes as much as you think. People are leaving CA and NY but it's not the very rich and it's not because of taxes. Also TX has some of the highest property taxes in the country. The government gets their money in one way or another, if not in income tax then property tax or some other tax, services get paid for.

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

So yes, alternative investments such as timepieces, rare musical instruments (Neil Peart's drumset went for $500,000 recently), Banksey / artwork... and timepieces are smart alternatives to retaining the value of your hard work efforts.

This I sort of agree with. Some of these things are decent alternative stores of value.

Take care.

[enjoythemusic]

WooWoo, good points and hopefully we can agree on one thing...

Too much money chasing too few assets.

[woowoo]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

WooWoo, good points and hopefully we can agree on one thing...

Too much money chasing too few assets.

Damn. don’t take the high road I was looking for a debate. :) All good.

Yes you are right. we definitely agree on this. Way too much money, whether earned or printed, chasing too few assets.

[supernova]

Although most of the modern watches, the estimate is ridiculously low, $12k for Rolex BLRO, $20k for AP 15202 etc.

Although that 15202 sold for $163k, 2020 model with no provenance, no idea what’s going on there but can’t be right?


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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by woowoo

Damn. don’t take the high road I was looking for a debate. :) All good.

Yes you are right. we definitely agree on this. Way too much money, whether earned or printed, chasing too few assets.

[woowoo]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

One of my favorites. You have great taste enjoythemusic. Let’s be friends.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

[enjoythemusic]

Yes, let's be friends... and love the vid you posted :)