My 1963 GMT 1675 with Silver Dial?

[Dan S]

True, I guess some people insure watches.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Dan S

True, I guess some people insure watches.

That’s what I was driving at. I know Eric has some valuable pieces, and I would guess he insures them. THIS one, however…who would appraise it, and how? If it was authentic, and verified by Rolex, it could be worth a small fortune. But, as we’ve now learned, that possibility seems to be no longer possible. So….what do we have here? A watch worth its parts? That’s alll?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

That’s what I was driving at. I know Eric has some valuable pieces, and I would guess he insures them. THIS one, however…who would appraise it, and how? If it was authentic, and verified by Rolex, it could be worth a small fortune. But, as we’ve now learned, that possibility seems to be no longer possible. So….what do we have here? A watch worth its parts? That’s alll?

If the OP wants to insure it for an amount of his choice, I'd imagine he can make it happen.

[MrBlobby]

Originally Posted by Dan S

If the OP wants to insure it for an amount of his choice, I'd imagine he can make it happen.

I don’t agree with that. You can’t insure something for more than it is worth and under insuring is also an issue.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by MrBlobby

I don’t agree with that. You can’t insure something for more than it is worth and under insuring is also an issue.

Appraisals of collectible items like this are done by people like professional dealers. It's naive to think that a well-connected collector would have trouble getting an appraisal for a particular desired value, within reason.

[Dom9]

Interesting result! Shame about the outcome in many ways but well done for staying the course!

[Wahlberg]

Thanks for the update! I was cheering for you. Still a good looking watch with a special story, real or not.

[Erpin]

Frankly i don’t have insurance for my watches. Majority are in my bank safety deposit boxes. The several watches that i wear on rotation are kept in a vault at home.

[MrBlobby]

I would say that an insurance company would insert a term requiring certain valuable pieces to be independently values. They would stipulate the type of person who would need to value the watch. Generally that would be a jeweller who probably doesn’t know the value of a specialist item.

The problem would then be if the watch was stolen then the insurer would likely only offer what they think the watch is worth rather than the amount it was insured for. If the insurer value is too high then they would pay out there value and you would have had years of wasted premium. If you are under insured on your items then they may only pay out a percentage of value.

[Scaramanga74]

So, how about this one?

https://www.chrono24.co.id/rolex/196...id33082928.htm

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Scaramanga74

So, how about this one?

https://www.chrono24.co.id/rolex/196...id33082928.htm

Read post #1 of the thread, where this Pan-Am model is mentioned. Also a thread here:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=26180

[Mark020]

Images from the the C24 link

[77T]

I'm may be misremembering - someone correct me if so.

In a long story about the Rolex GMT and Pan Am years ago I recalled pilots checked these Rolexes in and out just like their other company owned gear. They weren't "given" to them and thus the Pan Am logo.

If they purchased one for themselves through the corporate office (like hats were) then it became their property and a plain caseback was on the watch.

If I am recalling correctly, then wouldn't any of these unicorns with a Pan Am logo on the caseback be considered purloined?


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[77T]

...

[springer]

The Pan Am case back was a fake creation like most of the fake dials.

[77T]

Thanks John - I couldn't remember where I saw that tale - but you cleared it up.


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[Dom9]

I also read that, perhaps in a thread over on VRF?

[Xeramic]

IMO, the dial got now indirectly confirmed as an authentic Eggli-Weibel product in the meaning that it was made with an EW dial plate and an EW Rolex GMT cliché - otherwise it would not have taken the heritage department almost three years for an answer, and they could and would state the contrary; also note that they carefully formulate "not installed by Rolex" (instead of "not made by Rolex", which would exclude any somehow Rolex-related EW product) and even refuse to officially judge the dial… they see an authentic EW product which they can’t assign to this watch and probably to no Rolex at all, and just this constellation - an authentic EW dial for a Rolex GMT but not documented as a particular Rolex dial order/execution at Rolex itself - demanded deep researches in their archives and thus so much time.

This leaves room for two other possibilities which I've pretty much already anticipated here:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...&postcount=162

1) The dial got made by EW for another Rolex GMT anyway, on special order; but this is now highly unlikely, why should the dial have become separated from an assumed special order watch... even if the latter got damaged, any would keep it for authenticity reason; and in this case, Rolex could confirm the authenticity of the dial (like: made in a regular way, although not for the GMT in question) and would not formulate their answer like they did, nor would it have taken years to do so.

or

2) The dial got made...

• by EW as a sample dial and sent to Rolex
• by EW as a sample dial for Rolex but never sent to them
• by EW as a test dial to check the quality of the printing and finally completed without authorization with lume to get a personal "tribute" execution
• by an EW employee without authorization, as a personal "tribute" execution

...and got somewhen (but not much later, see the honest patina) and somehow into this GMT in an unauthorized way; any of these possibilities would have created a contemporary EW product for the Rolex GMT in regard to the used materials and means, the quality of the product and its patina, thus Rolex can't exclude the EW making but just a regular Rolex assembly (at least with this GMT), what the statement seems to reflect.

We have to drop the possibility of a lazy use of a sample dial for this GMT in the regular production (like: a Rolex manager asked for it as a gadget) as they exclude the installation by them, means they know that on this GMT was initially a regular dial installed.

My best guess is that it was made in the EW factory either as a printing test dial upgraded with lume or as a fully unauthorized "tribute" execution and thus never reached Rolex, and that it found its way into this GMT already in the 60s.

As we can assume that the dial got contemporarily made and misused, and that this GMT was maybe the only "carrier" (after it got initially made with a black dial), it would be very interesting to ask Rolex for the sale data of the watch... if it will turn out it got delivered in or near Geneva or the city of Biel (where EW was located), that would be a nice support for the strong assumption of an unauthorized "internal job".

In any way I stick to my opinion: this dial was produced with an EW plate and the EW printing cliché of an existing Rolex GMT dial execution – there exist no copies with full congruence to an original on such a level of detail; of course, this doesn't make it to a "full" Rolex product if it was not intended by Rolex for the use in a watch.

It's not the ideal result I'd have wished for Eric, but no need to regret anything, all of his steps were virtually mandatory - how could any not have risked the shot on the basis of this dial....

Greetings,
Xeramic

[saxo3]

Another top post, Xeramic, with content and details that surpasses (nearly) all contributions on TRF, read it already on VRF

[joli160]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Another top post, Xeramic, with content and details that surpasses (nearly) all contributions on TRF, read it already on VRF

Legend

[cardiel]

Erpin's patience and all round attitude are commendable........thank you for sharing the journey with us!

[Erpin]

Originally Posted by cardiel

Erpin's patience and all round attitude are commendable........thank you for sharing the journey with us!

Thank you also to everyone who responded, commented and followed this thread. It was a great journey for me. Time to move forward.

[Bladeshot]

Originally Posted by Erpin

Thank you also to everyone who responded, commented and followed this thread. It was a great journey for me. Time to move forward.

Thank you for sharing with us!


Just another WIS who loves to trade.
@bladeandwatch1 on IG

[Erpin]

Many thanks for the support Xeramic.

[1665fan]

So not genuine…,???

[TuRo]

Always the contrarian, granted. BUT...I'd still have this watch (see Gerhard and others comments over on VRF), over say a tritium service dial version at c £15k.

[Erpin]

Leaving for Europe this October 13 for Paris, Brussels, Luxembourg, Basel and my last leg, Geneva. Picking up my watch and will definitely ask the Heritage Department many questions and hopefully i can get some answers as to how they arrived at their conclusion about the dial.

[vintagewaferthin]

What an interesting journey this thread has been! Hopefully Rolex gives some more answers as to why they declared it non original.