GMT 1675/16753 “Root-beer” - History Question

[springer]

Originally Posted by baumare

The chart I use comes from another Forum and says 1968 to 1974, but then again not a direct info from Rolex catalogue, just a research from collectors

Attachment 1195090

Thanks for the reply's gentlemen. I believe the year for introduction of the 7836 Oyster being 1967 is a couple of years early and that 1970 is closer to the actual introduction of these bracelets. As we all know, there is plenty of incorrect information on the internet and specialty web sites regarding Rolex, watches or anything else for that matter. If I placed an introduction date of 1970 for the 7836 on my web site, that would not necessarily make it correct - but for now, until I see something substantive, it appears to be correct for me. I know that on one of the web sites mentioned in another post here, some of the information found there came from the internet, other web sites and from other collectors to include me. Much of the information that us collectors take for granted comes from other collectors based on their experience.

The one thing everyone should realize regarding the 7836 Oyster and some of the other bracelets is that several of them are heavily counterfeited - with some of these being fairly well constructed.

[Rafabond]

My 78363 bracelet according to the table started in 1975, my watch is from 1976 and the 78363 bracelet with code A, which coincides with the year. Sometimes it is created for example in 1975 but it begins to be assembled one or two years later since they first have to remove the old stock of the previous bracelet. The 7836 was possibly presented in 1968 but it began to be assembled in its entirety in 1970. And if there are any of the 68 'or 69', it will be very few units since the two references had to coexist.

[Dan S]

If somebody wants to prove that 7836 bracelets were available in 1967, just provide some evidence instead of cut-and-paste text from the internet. Start with some photos of legit bracelets with 67 date stamps on the clasp. Even better, show some one-owner watches from 1967.

[Rafabond]

what beauty, it gives off warmth

[baumare]

Originally Posted by springer

Thanks for the reply's gentlemen. I believe the year for introduction of the 7836 Oyster being 1967 is a couple of years early and that 1970 is closer to the actual introduction of these bracelets. As we all know, there is plenty of incorrect information on the internet and specialty web sites regarding Rolex, watches or anything else for that matter. If I placed an introduction date of 1970 for the 7836 on my web site, that would not necessarily make it correct - but for now, until I see something substantive, it appears to be correct for me. I know that on one of the web sites mentioned in another post here, some of the information found there came from the internet, other web sites and from other collectors to include me. Much of the information that us collectors take for granted comes from other collectors based on their experience.

The one thing everyone should realize regarding the 7836 Oyster and some of the other bracelets is that several of them are heavily counterfeited - with some of these being fairly well constructed.

After reading your expert comment I went back to the source of my first post to check and it turns out that the chart I posted was outdated and wrong, everybody confirmed your version of the 1970 as the introduction year, thank you for the clarification.

I think that for future reference it will be good to eliminate my chart but I can't edit my post, any suggestion?

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by thehunter

I’m having a healthy debate with a friend on the history of the 1675/16753 RB. My RB is stamped with case-back 1675, and I understand dates to 1974. However I believe that by 1974 Rolex was using model number 16753 so I’m thinking my date is wrong. Does anyone know when the ref number change happened? I understood that 1675 RBs with applied logos from that era were quite rare - can anyone confirm that?

Also - I have seen some vintage stainless/gold RB’s that look to be ref 1675/16753 with a solid brown bezel - was this bezel factory issued on that model?

Funny, just an hour ago I sent funds for a birth year (1974) 1675/3 myself. It has the two tone bezel, case is marked 1675, and movement is marked 1570 (even though it's a 1575).

Originally Posted by Rafabond

Here are some photographs of my watch, it is from 1976, 414xxxx and with 78363 series A oyster bracelet

my watch is all original from the period (1976) except for the bezel that is in service. In 2016 I took it to Rolex to do a maintenance service, I have kept the original bezel, it is quite discolored and I prefer to take the service one that is more faithful to when it was delivered in 1976, I bought it from the first owner of the watch and now I am the second owner.

Do you have any original paperwork on yours to confirm the 1976 aspect? I ask because mine is a 423xxxx serial and is considered 1974 by several sources...

[Rafabond]

I bought it from the first owner, he is a friend of the family, in 2016 a review was made in AD Rolex, the same site where he bought it and there they told us according to their files that it was delivered by Rolex Spain in 1976 and sold in AD the same year. The original bracelet that comes with the watch is a 78363 and comes with the code A, which corresponds to 1976.

the 78363 bracelet did not exist in 1974, so a 414xxxx could hardly be from 1974.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Rafabond

codes to know the year of the bracelets

Where would one find these codes at?
These are the only codes I see and they don’t align with being a 1999.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rafabond]

they are in closing, on my bracelet has the letter A, corresponding to 1976

[Rafabond]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Funny, just an hour ago I sent funds for a birth year (1974) 1675/3 myself. It has the two tone bezel, case is marked 1675, and movement is marked 1570 (even though it's a 1575).



Do you have any original paperwork on yours to confirm the 1976 aspect? I ask because mine is a 423xxxx serial and is considered 1974 by several sources...

HQmilton is a good vintage Rolex professional and to give an example of two of his watches with the serial numbers and the year they are dated.

[Rafabond]

from my vintage collection I have a 1969 Day-Date with all its original documentation and the table that I put before matches perfectly.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Rafabond

HQmilton is a good vintage Rolex professional and to give an example of two of his watches with the serial numbers and the year they are dated.

Thanks. Please don't take my question as trying to disprove the age of yours. I was just curious if you had something black and white like an original sales receipt with date. There doesn't seem to be total agreement on this subject. For example, 423xxxx is considered 1974 by the following sources (and maybe others I haven't found):

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=54362
http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/numbers.html
https://beckertime.com/lookup-rolex-serial-by-year/
https://www.collectors1946.com/pages...serial-numbers

Then to muddy the waters, Bob's shows my serial would be 1976 and Bernard shows it would be 1975 or 1976.

https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-serial-numbers
https://www.bernardwatch.com/Rolex-Serial-Numbers

So who knows. I guess "mid 70s" is probably all we can say for certain :)

[TimeLord2]

So, @Beamare, on the other thread with the birth year rootbeer, you said the sunburst rootbeer dial, which I have reposted below, is a service dial. Is it a service dial for a 1675, and what year were they introduced? I always found this confusing because some had an applied crown on the sunburst dial. I always thought it was introduced with the 16753 model not a 1675/3. BTW, for those of you who did not read the other thread, the circled text is another part of the conversation revolving around the T SWISS T text at the bottom as a tell tale sign of a service dial. I have never hear this either. (I mean that's really not that surprising that I have not heard that…) In two years on this forum I have never seen that bit of information and thought it should be shared on this thread.

[springer]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Thanks. Please don't take my question as trying to disprove the age of yours. I was just curious if you had something black and white like an original sales receipt with date. There doesn't seem to be total agreement on this subject. For example, 423xxxx is considered 1974 by the following sources (and maybe others I haven't found):

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=54362
http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/numbers.html
https://beckertime.com/lookup-rolex-serial-by-year/
https://www.collectors1946.com/pages...serial-numbers

Then to muddy the waters, Bob's shows my serial would be 1976 and Bernard shows it would be 1975 or 1976.

https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-serial-numbers
https://www.bernardwatch.com/Rolex-Serial-Numbers

So who knows. I guess "mid 70s" is probably all we can say for certain :)

These dating charts are a guide - that is all they are. Like many things Rolex, individuals sometimes cannot agree on whatever they are discussing or posting on the internet let alone the manufactured date of a watch.

Also, what dates a watch? Is it when it was sold? Is it when it was manufactured - how would you know that? Was it when it was assembled - again, how would you know that? Was it when the dealer received it from the Rolex distribution center? And the list goes on - choose a method that works for you.

Prior to 1973, case backs were dated with a quarter number and a year. I use the case back dating method to date watches prior to 1973. It's as close as any "guessing game" and works for me.

[springer]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

So, @Beamare, on the other thread with the birth year rootbeer, you said the sunburst rootbeer dial, which I have reposted below, is a service dial. Is it a service dial for a 1675, and what year were they introduced? I always found this confusing because some had an applied crown on the sunburst dial. I always thought it was introduced with the 16753 model not a 1675/3. BTW, for those of you who did not read the other thread, the circled text is another part of the conversation revolving around the T SWISS T text at the bottom as a tell tale sign of a service dial. I have never hear this either. (I mean that's really not that surprising that I have not heard that…) In two years on this forum I have never seen that bit of information and thought it should be shared on this thread.

T SWISS T at the bottom of the GMT two-tone dials is found on the regular factory dials. Saying a T SWISS T marking was indicative of a service dial is "fake news" and not correct. More misinformation which seems to happen quite often here lately and elsewhere too.

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by springer

T SWISS T at the bottom of the GMT two-tone dials is found on the regular factory dials. Saying a T SWISS T marking was indicative of a service dial is "fake news" and not correct. More misinformation which seems to happen quite often here lately and elsewhere too.

I did not explain that last part regarding the T SWISS T very well from the other thread as I was really looking for more information regarding the sunburst dial as a service dial for a 1675. The other thread proposed the sunburst as a service dial distinguished by different placement of the T on the T SWISS T. On the sunburst dial the T is spaced more centered between the minute markers compared to the Matt dial counterpart, which are closer to the minute markers, and the “I” is placed parallel to the hour marker at 6:00, instead of overlapping like on the Matt dial where the SW and SS are to either side of the hour marker. So that was the full description from the other thread and I placed that info here in the hopes that you might comment on this bit of information @Springer. Thank you! And now one other question. Does this change your opinion or is it still fake news? BTW, I am not arguing this case just thought I should provide the full proposition since I left that bit out...

[Rafabond]

[springer]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

I did not explain that last part regarding the T SWISS T very well from the other thread as I was really looking for more information regarding the sunburst dial as a service dial for a 1675. The other thread proposed the sunburst as a service dial distinguished by different placement of the T on the T SWISS T. On the sunburst dial the T is spaced more centered between the minute markers compared to the Matt dial counterpart, which are closer to the minute markers, and the “I” is placed parallel to the hour marker at 6:00, instead of overlapping like on the Matt dial where the SW and SS are to either side of the hour marker. So that was the full description from the other thread and I placed that info here in the hopes that you might comment on this bit of information @Springer. Thank you! And now one other question. Does this change your opinion or is it still fake news? BTW, I am not arguing this case just thought I should provide the full proposition since I left that bit out...

The off-center "I" can also be found on the black two-tone dials. I haven't studied them enough to address whether these off-set "I" dials indicate anything except an offset "I." Normally, service dials are noticeably different than production dials - to include fonts, coronets and even verbiage at the bottom of the dial. Again, I have been collecting for many years and never once have I heard this theory on the two-tone service dials.

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by springer

The off-center "I" can also be found on the black two-tone dials. I haven't studied them enough to address whether these off-set "I" dials indicate anything except an offset "I." Normally, service dials are noticeably different than production dials - to include fonts, coronets and even verbiage at the bottom of the dial. Again, I have been collecting for many years and never once have I heard this theory on the two-tone service dials.

As always, I value your opinion Springer, There is just not as much information regarding the Two tone brown or even black 1675/3 compared to the all stainless 1675.