1675, 1680, 1655 springbars....does size matter?

[Lol-x]

Vintage Rolex models like the 1675, 1680, 1655 1601 and 1019 etc. they all have 20mm lug widths.

So is there a standard size for all these watches in terms of springbar length and thickness?

Are aftermarket springbars recommended?

Recently, I got supplied with springbars (non-genuine I believe), which although suitable in length for 20mm lugs, the tips which go into the lugs are stepped and the thickness of the main body of the springbar where it passes through the Jubilee bracelet is narrower (1.8mm) than previously used (2mm).

Does it matter? Does something so outwardly generic need to be exact and "Rolex" in brand??? Is there any compromise to quality and function or performance?

Please help me, I'm feeling the pain.....

[lee fowler]

Drop me a PM with your requirements Steve.

Lee

[harry in montreal]

My old Tudor 7021 was found with a spiedel band and small springbars. They had a small diameter but measured about 20mm. They essentially bored out the springbar hole in the case. The bar should be snug and not jiggle around in the hole. I hope I don’t get banned for that haha

[TimeToGo]

My preferred are the single shoulder 20mm / 2mm - AM or Authentic.
.
As this pic, borrowed from the net.
.

[sishac]

On my watches I go with function over authenticity….if I am wearing it on anything other than the factory bracelet (which I then make sure to use OEM spring bars), I like to use the Seiko 2.5mm (I think) thick spring bars….it makes me feel better when my watch is on a nato…which it normally is.


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[77T]

Full high resolution chart:
https://docs.google.com/viewerng/vie...r.pdf&hl=en_US

That chart is for aftermarket Esslingler spring bars for just about all vintage case numbers.

It comes from their blog at: https://blog.esslinger.com/generic-r...ing-bar-chart/

All the cases you asked about use the same replacement spring bar (highlighted below) For the most part, if you are using a genuine bracelet, they are 1.8mm.




But if you order a size up (i.e., 2.0mm) - like the 9291 - be aware that the nominal pin length may be slightly longer. By doing that the pins may protrude a bit (“stand proud”).

I don’t use generic spring bars unless I’m bending them to accommodate a leather strap with curved ends.

That’s not because I have any knowledge of they are inferior to Rolex - in fact, I believe Rolex outsources their bars anyway.

[swaini3]

Hi Steve,
The 1675, 1680, 1019, 5513 use the same spring bars (23-1220).
The 1600, 1601, 1665 use (23-9290)
The 1655 uses (23-9293)
all are 20mm.

[JustinK]

I am not sure if they are genuine or aftermarket but don't they also make a shorter version of the spring bars for 20 mm watches.

The explanation I remember is they were commonly used on watches with thin lugs.

[Lol-x]

I sent a 1675 GMT TT bracelet away to Hong Kong to get serviced/refurbished.

Got the bracelet back and I can't fit the standard spring bars through the links. Hong Kong guy says "Just use thinner spring bars." like for a DJ.

Not real comfortable with this advice.....as thinner spring bars will be less secure (I do wear this watch riding a 1,100cc motorbike and at work) and thinner spring bars will be way less than the diameter of the lug holes.

[harry in montreal]

If it’s a jubilee band then the end loops should be capable of being opened slightly to accommodate the correct 2mm bar. I’ve had my watchmaker do this to a Tudor 6248-20 which wasn’t designed for a submariner. He was able to open up the ends. Don’t put a smaller bar into a 1675 case

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

.... Don’t put a smaller bar into a 1675 case

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
I'm in lockdown at the moment, so I'll have to wait until the watchmakers re-open.

[Lol-x]

But is there any difference in 1675 springbars for a Jubilee bracelet as opposed to an Oyster bracelet for the same model watch?

[harry in montreal]

What is preventing the bar from attaching to the band? Is it the first link of the band or is it the endlink? Some endlinks have loops that don’t have a bore large enough for the correct bar. I’m pretty sure the bar is the same for both bracelets

[Lol-x]

The size of the hole in the last link of the The size i of the hole in the last link of the Jubilee bracelet is the problem. The end link is captured and retained by the spring bar passing through the last link of the bracelet.

[lee fowler]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

But is there any difference in 1675 springbars for a Jubilee bracelet as opposed to an Oyster bracelet for the same model watch?

They are the same Steve.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I sent a 1675 GMT TT bracelet away to Hong Kong to get serviced/refurbished.

Got the bracelet back and I can't fit the standard spring bars through the links. Hong Kong guy says "Just use thinner spring bars." like for a DJ.

Not real comfortable with this advice.....as thinner spring bars will be less secure (I do wear this watch riding a 1,100cc motorbike and at work) and thinner spring bars will be way less than the diameter of the lug holes.

You can open up the “loops” enough on the bracelet that hold the spring bars with a couple household tools (ex: hammer and nail) and some patience. You just need to find something with a slightly larger diameter than the loops and push them through.


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[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I sent a 1675 GMT TT bracelet away to Hong Kong to get serviced/refurbished.

Got the bracelet back and I can't fit the standard spring bars through the links. Hong Kong guy says "Just use thinner spring bars." like for a DJ.

Not real comfortable with this advice.....as thinner spring bars will be less secure (I do wear this watch riding a 1,100cc motorbike and at work) and thinner spring bars will be way less than the diameter of the lug holes.

It sounds to me like you may be confusing the bar diameter and pin diameter.

[artisanswatch]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Vintage Rolex models like the 1675, 1680, 1655 1601 and 1019 etc. they all have 20mm lug widths.

So is there a standard size for all these watches in terms of springbar length and thickness?

Are aftermarket springbars recommended?

Recently, I got supplied with springbars (non-genuine I believe), which although suitable in length for 20mm lugs, the tips which go into the lugs are stepped and the thickness of the main body of the springbar where it passes through the Jubilee bracelet is narrower (1.8mm) than previously used (2mm).

Does it matter? Does something so outwardly generic need to be exact and "Rolex" in brand??? Is there any compromise to quality and function or performance?

Please help me, I'm feeling the pain.....

Hi Steve

I will send you a Private message to see if I can help you fix this trouble

[Lol-x]

The standard size springbar for this GMT TT Jubilee bracelet will not fit due to the bracelet holes made too small and welded shut.

[swaini3]

oh no

[emersm]

Originally Posted by 77T

Full high resolution chart:
https://docs.google.com/viewerng/vie...r.pdf&hl=en_US

That chart is for aftermarket Esslingler spring bars for just about all vintage case numbers.

It comes from their blog at: https://blog.esslinger.com/generic-r...ing-bar-chart/

All the cases you asked about use the same replacement spring bar (highlighted below) For the most part, if you are using a genuine bracelet, they are 1.8mm.




But if you order a size up (i.e., 2.0mm) - like the 9291 - be aware that the nominal pin length may be slightly longer. By doing that the pins may protrude a bit (“stand proud”).

I don’t use generic spring bars unless I’m bending them to accommodate a leather strap with curved ends.

That’s not because I have any knowledge of they are inferior to Rolex - in fact, I believe Rolex outsources their bars anyway.

Thank you for posting this.

I just picked up a 7017/0 that needs new spring bars and I was unsure which were correct

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

The standard size springbar for this GMT TT Jubilee bracelet will not fit due to the bracelet holes made too small and welded shut.

Attachment 1244130

Are you sure they are welded shut? In the photo, it looks like there is a gap on the bottom side of each loop, i.e. they are just folded over.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Are you sure they are welded shut? In the photo, it looks like there is a gap on the bottom side of each loop, i.e. they are just folded over.

You can see where the repair tech put some weld or solder on the underside each loop. The topsides are solid of course.

This appears to be the older USA type oval link jubilee bracelet, Steve.

There are parts (about $45 per loop) that will have the right dimensions for the nominal dimension springbars.

That means 4 of them, plus labor pulling apart the terminal SS links on each 20mm end and re-pinning them again.

Or .2mm smaller diameter springbars. The pins that insert into the lugholes would be the same diameter as the ones you have.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

The standard size springbar for this GMT TT Jubilee bracelet will not fit due to the bracelet holes made too small and welded shut.

Attachment 1244130

I know how frustrating that must be. Do you know if that springbar is 2.0mm or is it 1.8mm?

I believe 1.8 is the standard size and if that’s what won’t fit, then a calculated risk whilst on the motorbike if you found some 1.6mm springbars.

Only you know how aggressive the vibrations are on your rides. I think a bund strap or NATO could be your riding companion for the GMT if it’s a worry.


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[Lol-x]

Before I sent the bracelet away to Michael Young, the standard 2mm spring bars were used with the bracelet. That was stock standard. When I get the watch back, the standard 2mm spring bars do not fit.

Apart from the issue of strength, I can well imagine if I take the watch to Rolex for service they will say the bracelet has been modified and they will refuse to work on the watch.

I didn't send the watch away and pay US$445 so that the bracelet will no longer fit with the watch using the standard size spring bars.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by 77T

You can see where the repair tech put some weld or solder on the underside each loop. The topsides are solid of course.

Yes, thanks for that. I can see it now.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Before I sent the bracelet away to Michael Young, the standard 2mm spring bars were used with the bracelet. That was stock standard. When I get the watch back, the standard 2mm spring bars do not fit.

Apart from the issue of strength, I can well imagine if I take the watch to Rolex for service they will say the bracelet has been modified and they will refuse to work on the watch.

I didn't send the watch away and pay US$445 so that the bracelet will no longer fit with the watch using the standard size spring bars.

Agree with your viewpoint. It could be a free fix if you share that point with M. Young about the 2mm bars.

He should be able to fabricate new loops.


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[springer]

Steve, take the watch to a jewelry store that has a jeweler that can solder gold. Also take along a correct spring bar and end link.

Have the jeweler cut the solder open on the rings on both sides of the bracelet and have the jeweler open up the rings until the 2mm spring bars properly fit through the rings. Then, the jeweler needs to place the rings into the end link and ensure the spring bar still fits through the rings. Once they are properly fit, have the jeweler solder up the rings again.

Based on the photo of your end rings, they appear to be too close to the bracelet. When this happens, even if the spring bars fit through the rings without the end links attached, once the end rings are placed through the end links, there is is a good chance the spring bars will not go through the end rings because the rings are not going into the end links far enough. Below are some photos for comparison to your end rings. The bracelet in my photos has not been cut or altered in the past. It has plenty of stretch!!!

Good luck.

jP

[ILuvSubs]

Sorry to hear about that Steve. Have you raised this with M Young and asked for this to be rectified?

I had an issue after M Young serviced a watch for me and it stopped running within a week or two of getting it back. M Young and his team rectified the issue for me at no cost to me (including shipping) and the watch has been running fine ever since.

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Before I sent the bracelet away to Michael Young, the standard 2mm spring bars were used with the bracelet. That was stock standard. When I get the watch back, the standard 2mm spring bars do not fit.

Apart from the issue of strength, I can well imagine if I take the watch to Rolex for service they will say the bracelet has been modified and they will refuse to work on the watch.

I didn't send the watch away and pay US$445 so that the bracelet will no longer fit with the watch using the standard size spring bars.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by springer

...
Based on the photo of your end rings, they appear to be too close to the bracelet. When this happens, even if the spring bars fit through the rings without the end links attached, once the end rings are placed through the end links, there is is a good chance the spring bars will not go through the end rings because the rings are not going into the end links far enough. Below are some photos for comparison to your end rings. The bracelet in my photos has not been cut or altered in the past. It has plenty of stretch!!!

Good luck.

jP

Thanks John, yes that is the second defect in the work by Michael Young, the end rings are too close to the bracelet and even if I could get the spring bars through, they would not fit in the watch lugs.

I sent a covering letter with the bracelet expressly stating "ROLEX 1675 GMT BRACELET"

US$445 later I get the bracelet back and low and behold the bracelet will not accept my standard Rolex 1675 springbars previously used anymore, as the end-holes on the bracelet are welded closed.







First I'm told:

"Took a look back at your band, you have a US made Jubilee , so for the thicker spring bar you can actually tap it thru it should be done fairly easily, don’t worry about breaking it, if you do we will help you fix it."

There is no way the spring bars can be pushed through either the bracelet holes or the lug holes. It's a total disaster and not something that I can in any way "easily fix".

Second response I'm told:

"This particular type of US made jubilee band is made for the 1.8mm spring bars and can be installed on a 1675 GMT with no problems. Just that you have a preference to modify and to use a 2.0mm spring bar was not clearly indicated on your cover letter so we have no way to read your mind. If you worry on durability there is actually no difference in performance in strength just because it is 2.0mm since the body of a spring bar is hollow the thickness of the tube is the same for 1.8 and 2.0.

Have a great day!"

I would have thought this issue would have at least been addressed as part of the refurbishment process as it is CRITICAL to the ability to fit and use the bracelet....Apparently its all my fault
Suffice to say I didn't have a great day........

I sent the bracelet to Michael Young in a solid cardboard box so it could not be crushed/damaged. Michael Young sent the bracelet back to me in an envelope (without any protection) and now I've notice that one of the end links is now bent where it has been crushed in shipping back to me.

Added to that the declared value of the bracelet by Michael Young was HKD$20 (USD$10) and FedEx called me to advise they did not believe that to be a true value, I then spent the following week proving (via multiple phone calls and emails) to FedEx that I had sent the bracelet away for repair 2 months previously

Talk about the repairer from hell......