Franken/fake oyster “sotto” daytona (rco) at christie’s hong kong

[rootbeer7]

What’s amazing to me is the difference in attitude to him from vintage Rolex collectors and Panerai enthusiasts!!

[Boopie]

Super-impressed with the research. It was a fascinating read, and I thank the OP for posting.

[L.K Johnson]

Originally Posted by Boopie

Super-impressed with the research. It was a fascinating read, and I thank the OP for posting.

Thanks!

[watchmavan]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

What’s amazing to me is the difference in attitude to him from vintage Rolex collectors and Panerai enthusiasts!!

That's usually just brand fanboys who won't hear of anything Berghaus about their lovers. The easy thing is they stand out strongly from the crowd with plenty of attacks on the person and little about the substance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by watchmavan

That's usually just brand fanboys who won't hear of anything Berghaus about their lovers. The easy thing is they stand out strongly from the crowd with plenty of attacks on the person and little about the substance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sadly, always Panerai owners. I don't understand why they get so worked up about this. Another reason why I would never buy something from that brand.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by swish77

Major auction houses should just hire Perezscope as a consultant to go over these high-end pieces in advance. The guy’s Sherlock Holmes.

As for watch lovers who are scared away from vintage by stories like this, I see it as the complete opposite. You should be comforted by knowing that even the tiniest questionable details of these vintage Rolexes can be sniffed out nowadays.

There is so, so much information available online about the history of vintage Rolexes, and all the different variations and microscopic details of the watches. Never before has there been this much attention paid to the details because of the money involved. That’s a good thing and helps us true vintage enthusiasts. It just means we need to do even more homework and perhaps solicit the help of the community more.

Spot on.

[Mk2rick]

seems like christies did the right thing and removed it from the auction! Justice prevails! I read on instagram that Christies was going to push through with the listing which would have done irrepairable damage to their brand name.

Perezscope is really a gem to the rolex vintage community!!

[Alexxonvaldez]

Lot pulled from auction without the slightest explanation ! Now it's time for The Vintage Concept which apparently did the swap to explain and for buyers to double check what they received from this seller...

A few counter performances to note :

The Blancpain Fifty Fathoms Milspec 1 does not exceed the half of the low estimate, 3 times less than this one.

The 1st gen Jumbo Nautilus sold off to 128 k$. No madness.

On the other side,

The Milsub with papers goes for an acceptable 224 k$

the 5513 Maxi Dial without bracelet goes for a generous 19 k$.

[Tavli3]

Cudos to perezcope! Vintage Concepts certainly has some splaining to do as Ricky Ricardo used to say.

I still don’t get why you try to pull off a million dollar scam and you don’t swap out the movement?? I guess they never thought anyone would put the time and effort into checking it out not to mention having the skill and knowledge required to uncover their scheme.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wahlberg]

How much do these experts at auction houses earn? +100-200k a year? Why don't they do their research?

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

How much do these experts at auction houses earn? +100-200k a year? Why don't they do their research?

They don’t know how or aren’t smart enough……if they were they wouldn’t sell so many fakes and pieced together watches……

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

How much do these experts at auction houses earn? +100-200k a year? Why don't they do their research?

They do!! Didn’t you know that over half the “My grandad just left me a Rolex” threads on this forum are started by auction house experts?

[pereztroika]

Originally Posted by Alexxonvaldez

Lot pulled from auction without the slightest explanation !

Nope, the watch was NOT pulled. Christie's went ahead with the sale but nobody bid on it. Christie's even lowered the starting price from HKD 8.5 million to 7 million. That is around USD 190k less. The moment the time was up, the listing disappeared, as did the 6240 "Solo" listing which didn't get any bid either.

"Solo" Daytonas can be quite interesting too:
https://watchesbysjx.com/2018/01/wha...tona-solo.html


Cheers
Jose

[shaunylw]

I love vintage, but its hard to want to collect them. The variables are insane.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Mk2rick]

Originally Posted by pereztroika

Nope, the watch was NOT pulled. Christie's went ahead with the sale but nobody bid on it. Christie's even lowered the starting price from HKD 8.5 million to 7 million. That is around USD 190k less. The moment the time was up, the listing disappeared, as did the 6240 "Solo" listing which didn't get any bid either.

"Solo" Daytonas can be quite interesting too:
https://watchesbysjx.com/2018/01/wha...tona-solo.html


Cheers
Jose

Yikes, looks like i will take back my praise for Christies now then ...

I always thought Vintage Concept was a trustable HK reseller :(
Its such a scary world out there with vintage dealers

[roh123]

There’s no such thing as trustable dealers. It’s all about the watches. A great watch can be sold by a sketchy dealer and a questionable watch can pass through the hands of great dealers.

My guess regarding this RCO is that it will either be kept as is and finally moved somehow or that the owner or a dealer will find a new early 6263 which is not traceable online and swap dials again.

[Ferrari308]

The quote "Follow the money" never seemed more appropriate.

Its the same in the vintage car world, especially Ferraris. There are a lot of stories that don't get coverage, but they are out there.



PDG

[hankit]

Originally Posted by roh123

There’s no such thing as trustable dealers. It’s all about the watches. A great watch can be sold by a sketchy dealer and a questionable watch can pass through the hands of great dealers.

My guess regarding this RCO is that it will either be kept as is and finally moved somehow or that the owner or a dealer will find a new early 6263 which is not traceable online and swap dials again.

I'm sure the it will go somewhere under the radar and trade either locally or just ship off somewhere unnotice..

i mention before, this watch has been sitting in that shop for ages with no one dare to pick it up...and just 1 night their most the question pieces just sold somewhere..

If this owner, pick everything up from the same shop.... even the milsub will say barely pass the check marks. Seriously, I had chat about with them and never did like the place much....

Watches like these will just kept in safe..comes back out ..circle around locally until some auction house takes it in and auction off ..

You will be surprise you can virtual find which shop it jumped

[nevikwen]

I wonder what The Vintage concept has to comment about this. They are a very reputable shop in HK, and this watch was sold to a high profile HK Actor. If proven The shop had missed these errors, they should at least take the watch back?

[roh123]

No one knows and everyone points fingers. It’s not unlikely the watch was on consigment through the vintage concept and later was brought to auction by the owner.

[L.K Johnson]

Wonder if someone goes public and try to own “the mistake” or if the try to bury it…Moste likely the latter

[hankit]

Originally Posted by nevikwen

I wonder what The Vintage concept has to comment about this. They are a very reputable shop in HK, and this watch was sold to a high profile HK Actor. If proven The shop had missed these errors, they should at least take the watch back?

The thing is that, unless you can prove in away the watch is franken and have someone or somebody with extreme influence... its going to be hard to have them take it all back.. Unless Rolex itself becomes the judge..

They believe its legit, they sell you as legit....you buy it at their terms...so suppose its legit right?

I dont see a problem if they sell modern or neo-vintage...but ones you go beyond that.. its really you and the watch...

[roh123]

Originally Posted by L.K Johnson

Wonder if someone goes public and try to own “the mistake” or if the try to bury it…Moste likely the latter

Does it matter? Regardless it is a very expensive and valuable watch. Even if put-together. It will dissapear for a while and maybe resurface again in one way or the other. It’s not like this is the first Daytona dial swap. It’s just highlighted as it is the most valuable standard configuration.

[Oyster Perp]

Brilliant piece of detective work. I was most impressed with the examination of the screw positions. genius that.

[LJubel328]

If I ever dip my toes in the vintage market again I will offer a consulting fee to Perezcope for his services.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mk2rick]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

If I ever dip my toes in the vintage market again I will offer a consulting fee to Perezcope for his services.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Truly a gem to the vintage rolex community ! Give him a medal!

[Dries]

Vintage Concept has been known for franken rolex watch dealer?!