Grey vendor bought up competitors references

[thenewrick]

So I keep a list of watched references on C24 and keep track of the prices and availability.

I noticed the OP41 silver went from around 25 examples down to 20 within a day with all the lower priced examples disappearing. At the same time I saw 1 grey vendor now listing 7 of the same reference for a higher price. Went from $9,000 to $10,500 overnight with many fewer examples and fewer vendors.

I just thought it was interesting. An example of fairly clear cut market manipulation by the Greys.

100% fine and not illegal. Just interesting.

I wonder if they had any insight into why this reference. Maybe they just figured it was undervalued and decided to corner the market because it was a small risk/reward scenario.

Not an investment thread or anything like that.

[rmwill]

Most listings for the hottest references on C24 are not backed by the actual watch. Most c24 sellers source the watch from the wholesale whatsapp groups once an order is placed. Not sure what you are actually tracking with your effort, given there is no actual sale data or true inventory. All you are observing are listings.

[vh2k]

The clueless obsession with tracking phony values on C24 is neverending. It's a marketplace where people list stuff for sale.

The notion that the value of my 10-year old watch is comparable to the value of a BNIB/unworn/new card example of the same watch that someone just listed is pure nonsense. OP's watch is newer... but the same principle applies.

[thenewrick]

Well it's really not a value thread at all. It was just interesting to see the listings go from 27 or so down to 20 in a day with one of the vendors now with 7 new listings of the same reference. It just appears as though they bought 10 or so of the references from competitors, the listed most of them at higher prices. The odds that one vendor suddenly received 7-10 of the same reference as trade ins seems unlikely. It's likely they did go wholesale route and just bought up everything they could under $9k so they could corner the market and relist.

I just found it interesting. This can't really happen with more mass produced references like Pepsi and Daytona because there are just too many for sale. Once there's over 100 of a reference listed for sale it's harder to corner the market than if there's only 20 for sale. That's my guess at least. The Grey world is a wild world.

[thenewrick]

Originally Posted by rmwill

Most listings for the hottest references on C24 are not backed by the actual watch. Most c24 sellers source the watch from the wholesale whatsapp groups once an order is placed. Not sure what you are actually tracking with your effort, given there is no actual sale data or true inventory. All you are observing are listings.

So you're saying if you go on C24 and purchase a watch there's a high likelihood the vendor would just not fulfill the order because they didn't have the watch and their agreement with the reference holder fell through?

Have people experienced this? I haven't bought used through a Grey before so I'm not sure how common this is.

[JodyHighroller]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

So you're saying if you go on C24 and purchase a watch there's a high likelihood the vendor would just not fulfill the order because they didn't have the watch and their agreement with the reference holder fell through?

Have people experienced this? I haven't bought used through a Grey before so I'm not sure how common this is.

The listings that use stock images are fishing for buyers at a said price. Once they find a buyer then they source a watch for that price. As previously posted, most don’t actually carry inventory on hand.

[vh2k]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

So you're saying if you go on C24 and purchase a watch there's a high likelihood the vendor would just not fulfill the order because they didn't have the watch and their agreement with the reference holder fell through?

Have people experienced this? I haven't bought used through a Grey before so I'm not sure how common this is.

You're a sucker who buys an overpriced watch at $xx,xxx from a dealer with a phantom listing. The dealer goes onto WhatsApp or FB, sources the watch wholesale for $xx,xxx minus $3,000 and sends you the watch. (That's why very few listings say "Available Now.") The dealer (who didn't even have it in stock) just made $3,000 for doing nothing but creating a phony listing.

[thenewrick]

Is this just speculation or have you actually been burned by this practice of buying on C24 and not receiving the watch? I haven't heard of this happening but if it's true; I'd like to know.

The listings I'm talking about weren't stock photos and all had different times on the dial as per usual C24 rules. I've sold on C24 and they asked me to set the watch photo to a certain time to verify before listing went live.

[tramplejericho]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

So you're saying if you go on C24 and purchase a watch there's a high likelihood the vendor would just not fulfill the order because they didn't have the watch and their agreement with the reference holder fell through?

Have people experienced this? I haven't bought used through a Grey before so I'm not sure how common this is.

Very common. I’ve enquired about rare watches and been told “we’ll check our stock” and then been told it’s not available. Despite being advertised as in stock.



They then changed the status to “on request” Not sure how they do the time setting thing.

Also on another point, If you specify the condition and whether the watch is worn or unworn, I find the range of value pretty accurate for those watches in the “collection” or “followed.”

However for low volume watches a single sale can set a big swing in the price within a day… so for example a 228206 which has a massive price range due to dial config which can’t be specified in the app… one watch in a population of say 150 globally with say baguettes or Arabic numerals could sell for £50k above the mid point of the value and artificially swing the price up.

Yesterday my valuation went up £11k in a day and it’s back down again today. I think some of it is automated then can be corrected by C24 manually on review, and of course this only accounts for watches which are actually transacted/advertised on the platform…

It’s a guideline not a realistic number which is also inflated by around 4% due to dealer commission loading and 6.5% for private watches.

228206, 126655, 116400GV

[thenewrick]

It seems like if there are so many phony listings it would encourage a vigilante to report them to C24 to get the listings removed. Maybe a competitor investigating the authenticity of all the listings cheaper than theirs.

I've only inquired on maybe 5 C24 listings and the vendor had them in stock each time. I just found out which vendor they were and called their brick and mortar location. I'm sure there's always going to be some scamming going on though.

Used jewelry is definitely one of those maximum hustle industries. Gotta be really savvy.

[VonSlingshot]

C24 is a breeding ground no different than bookface/whatsapp/whatever other platforms of trading that’s happening.

I’ve had 3 C24 purchases cancelled out because they advertised they had the watch and could not deliver it (they lied - duh).

I’d argue 50% of C24 listings are bunk

[DVR]

Always go to "Condition & Delivery Contents", choose 'availbe now' and forget all the rest.

[thenewrick]

Oh yea I only search for USA, available now

[KY..]

C24 seems to be a grey dealer themselves.
They will buy watches listed at reasonable prices on their platform and re-list them at higher prices as “sold by C24”.
Since they own the site they can do whatever it takes to generate income.
So the same applies to all grey dealers who believe they can make money.
Supply and demand basically so don’t get caught being the hungry fish.

[VonSlingshot]

Originally Posted by DVR

Always go to "Condition & Delivery Contents", choose 'availbe now' and forget all the rest.

All three cancellations were when using that exact search criteria.
It’s not fool proof.

[thenewrick]

Interesting. I guess I'll be more cautious when it comes to Grey vendors (already was extremely cautious). Probably will never buy used online.

[tramplejericho]

Originally Posted by KY..

C24 seems to be a grey dealer themselves.
They will buy watches listed at reasonable prices on their platform and re-list them at higher prices as “sold by C24”.
Since they own the site they can do whatever it takes to generate income.
So the same applies to all grey dealers who believe they can make money.
Supply and demand basically so don’t get caught being the hungry fish.

Since they were bought by private equity their whole commercial model has been messed up. They have increased their commissions 300% for commercial and private sellers. This pushes people to find the watches on their platform and then contact the bricks and mortar locations of the dealers to buy and negotiate lower prices.

They have then set up processes and automated systems to ask buyers “did you buy this watch” etc.

When they were a start up they had it right, low rates of commissions facilitating an open market. risk management for the buyer, authenticity guarantee, escrow service, great value prop, but not worth 6.5% to a private seller.

Then they have as you say jumped onto the margin that can be generated by competing with their own customers. Not a sustainable model and ripe for disruption, they should have kept it simple and stuck to their niche. Now other PE and VC companies are financing other platforms to compete with them, including HODINKEE with their acquisitions and bobs watches etc…

Silly C24…




228206, 126655, 116400GV

[thenewrick]

In my experience, if you take 15% off the C24 price, that's what the vendor will sell it for if you call them up.

My original point was just that I found a real example of 1 Grey vendor buying up all the references from other Grey vendors to corner the market. I just found that to be interesting.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

So I keep a list of watched references on C24 and keep track of the prices and availability.

I noticed the OP41 silver went from around 25 examples down to 20 within a day with all the lower priced examples disappearing. At the same time I saw 1 grey vendor now listing 7 of the same reference for a higher price. Went from $9,000 to $10,500 overnight with many fewer examples and fewer vendors.

I just thought it was interesting. An example of fairly clear cut market manipulation by the Greys.

100% fine and not illegal. Just interesting.

I wonder if they had any insight into why this reference. Maybe they just figured it was undervalued and decided to corner the market because it was a small risk/reward scenario.

Not an investment thread or anything like that.

I like these stats and admire your interest in it but I agree that the ads are likely brokerages without the item. Fwiw, it’s common with watches and collusion is easy. One person could have all the ads. Then emails buddies to remove when they’re trying to close a deal. Buyer gets anxious. Closes deal. Watches pop up again a week later. Cycle continues.

[thenewrick]

Well the vendor listed 7 of the same reference with different photos and descriptions and prices. Are they just doing some goofy 4d chess thing? I don't know why they'd go through the effort to compete with themselves and buy up competition. Just confusing. That sucks you guys have been scammed by Greys tho.

I think the most simple explanation is a Grey saw 27 of a reference for sale. Saw the Turquoise and other colors skyrocket in price. Took a small risk in buying up all the cheap examples of the reference then just relisted them at higher prices to corner the market. Not sure there's much 4d chess going on with these folks.