Fake Movements in Real Casings????

[broncophil]

I was at a local AD, and they asked me where I normally buy my watches. I told them that the past few I've bought were from Grey Dealers.

They told me that even if the outside is real, there are many who replace the movements with cheap stuff??

Is that even possible?

How do I prevent being taken ? Open the case back?

[SLS]

Originally Posted by broncophil

I was at a local AD, and they asked me where I normally buy my watches. I told them that the past few I've bought were from Grey Dealers.

They told me that even if the outside is real, there are many who replace the movements with cheap stuff??

Is that even possible?

How do I prevent being taken ? Open the case back?

Yes, it will cost you less than $100 from otto frei to get a caseback opener & a bracelet removal tool. It also helps to buy from trusted sellers that have a lot to lose by selling a watch with fake parts.
Scott

[padi56]

Originally Posted by broncophil

I was at a local AD, and they asked me where I normally buy my watches. I told them that the past few I've bought were from Grey Dealers.

They told me that even if the outside is real, there are many who replace the movements with cheap stuff??

Is that even possible?

How do I prevent being taken ? Open the case back?

Well I would seriously doubt if any well known grey dealer would do that. They have a business too and would not last long if that was the case.

[beshannon]

I don't doubt that this has happened.

I don't doubt that Rolex AD's would say this to save a sale or malign a reputable grey seller.

Bottomline in this hobby is to buy the seller not the watch.

[wantonebad]

Not saying it doesn't happen, but I AM saying that AD's love to use scare tactics when they talk about grey dealers. They know they can't compete on price so why not sew the seed of doubt to force you into paying a little extra for the peace of mind they offer, against the fear they are helping to foster

[Lamone]

They are alot of "Frankies" around. Best is to pop the caseback, see if the movement's serial # matches the model number and the production year.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

Not saying it doesn't happen, but I AM saying that AD's love to use scare tactics when they talk about grey dealers. They know they can't compete on price so why not sew the seed of doubt to force you into paying a little extra for the peace of mind they offer, against the fear they are helping to foster

Agreed.

The guy is talking out of his hat. It might happen on the rare occasion but the whole spiel is just scare mongering bolderdash.

[Timber Loftis]

Typical AD scare mongering. Just laugh at them and tell them you'll check back in a year and see if they're still in business. Seriously, this is not a time I envy an AD, that's for sure. Poor service and attitude do not mix well with a recession.

[LocoNBroko]

It seems that with the economy in the crapper, AD's are resorting to whatever tactics they can to "make the sale". It also does not surprise me that they dont first resort to offering better discounts. They would rather spread these rumors and over-exaggerate things such as this...
YES, there are watches out there with genuine cases and non Rolex movements. I once purchased a 16613 that had a genuine dial, case and bracelet and a $100 eta movement.
Luckily, the seller took it back when I confronted him with this fact. Shortly after that I bought the tools to open watches myself.

[Rolex116520]

There are indeed "moody" Rolex about , but if you buy one of those I believe atleast 50% is your own fault for not having done your homework.
I still believe it is not the function of an AD to scare you from buying on the grey market , it is his job by offering his selection , experience , after sale service at the price you are happy with. The day you have as duff one on your hands you got from Ebay he should feel sorry for you and he may mention that such a thing would not have occured had you bought with him.
Obviously in desperate times even AD resort to desperate mesures

[Prince]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well I would seriously doubt if any well known grey dealer would do that. They have a business too and would not last long if that was the case.

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Agreed.

The guy is talking out of his hat. It might happen on the rare occasion but the whole spiel is just scare mongering bolderdash.

Also agree, O Wise Mods!!!

[watchmaker]

It is actually more common than you may think. I would estimate that I get 5+ fake Rolex per month, where the customer genuinly doesn't know it's fake.
There seems to be two groups, fake movements in genuine cases,
And genuine movements in fake cases. The fakers seem to buy/steal/whatever 1 real watch, and butcher it up to make 2.

[koronet-kid]

i do know of some one this happened to they paid £7.5 k for a gold sub, sent it for service two years later only to discover the movement had been swapped. but i would also say this is a very rare occurance.

the old saying keeps ringing in my ears BUY THE SELLER

regards sean

[Atl]

How would they get a movement to fit and be aligned right with the case size, stem and hole for stem, calender wheel, and window for date on dial, etc.? I'ts not like all watch cases are the same size, and ETA never made movements for new Rolexes. I wonder how they could pull it off?

[Numismatist]

Even with ADs you never know...

I was in Sarasota, and liked a watch in the case but liked the dial of another; the salesperson was quick to offer that he'd be happy to swap out the dials for me if I bought it.

Well, I suppose that would be all Rolex, but hardly original.

People will do whatever it takes to make the sale.

Buy the seller first.

[chu88y]

so are we saying theres loads of empty cases available "don't believe the hype"

[Easton98]

I assume this is something we should never have to worry about with the reputable sellers on this forum? If that wasn't the case...I am sure the feedback would be all over the place.

I also assume that this is less likely to happen on a new in box watch?

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by Easton98

I assume this is something we should never have to worry about with the reputable sellers on this forum? If that wasn't the case...I am sure the feedback would be all over the place.

I also assume that this is less likely to happen on a new in box watch?

Caveat Emptor!!!

Don't take anyone's word for it, buy the seller first as has been stated

[scottjal]

Originally Posted by Atl

How would they get a movement to fit and be aligned right with the case size, stem and hole for stem, calender wheel, and window for date on dial, etc.? I'ts not like all watch cases are the same size, and ETA never made movements for new Rolexes. I wonder how they could pull it off?

They can't, the ETA movement with similar GMT features is thicker so the watch ends up being thicker than normal like an Omega great white for example.

I don't buy the whole thing: No one out there is buying genuine and replacing the movement to sell at a discount.

Sewing pure FUD.

[DAVIDSW]

Very common SCARE tactics

[lwrm23]

I was at Mayor's in Brandon, FL the other day and they told me the same thing about putting fake movements into real cases.. ect

[lobo58]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

It is actually more common than you may think. I would estimate that I get 5+ fake Rolex per month, where the customer genuinly doesn't know it's fake.
There seems to be two groups, fake movements in genuine cases,
And genuine movements in fake cases. The fakers seem to buy/steal/whatever 1 real watch, and butcher it up to make 2.

I can see that happening, but it would be the death knell for any seller who trades on reputation.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by lwrm23

I was at Mayor's in Brandon, FL the other day and they told me the same thing about putting fake movements into real cases.. ect

this sort of tactic by Dealers is nonsense for the most part..

First, there is no source for "Genuine cases", especially of new models.

Second, the movement is not an expensive part...

These rumors come from the older vintage market where a broken Rolex is fitted with a working non-rolex movement because parts are not readily available. It also crops from the huge replica market where the outside looks good so the consumer ssumes that his "movement was swapped", when, infact, it is a total replica..

Also, don't confruse "Grey Market" with "Re-sellers" (used market), "Black Market" or outright fakes and scammers.. the Grey Market Dealer is a legitimate businessman who only bypasses Rolex Corporate when importing product, and passes on the tariff savings and typical contracted mark-up...

A Reseller of Rolex watches, bought low and sold high, is not a Grey Market Dealer; neither is a pawn Shop.....

[LocoNBroko]

Originally Posted by Atl

How would they get a movement to fit and be aligned right with the case size, stem and hole for stem, calender wheel, and window for date on dial, etc.? I'ts not like all watch cases are the same size, and ETA never made movements for new Rolexes. I wonder how they could pull it off?

Ever hear of Tudor?

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by lwrm23

I was at Mayor's in Brandon, FL the other day and they told me the same thing about putting fake movements into real cases.. ect

Heard the same thing at Williams Barthman in NYC.... the worst AD I have ever been to and I will never step foot into again.