Interpreting timegrapher results

[Blueteg]

I just purchased a Weishi No. 1000 timegrapher and was hoping I could get some feedback from you all on the results.

The watch I chose to test is an Explorer 2 (ref. 16570) that I purchased about 2 years ago. Love the watch and it keeps decent time, but I purchased it with unknown service history so I was curious to see how it would perform on the timegrapher.

Before starting, I read the article on Bob's Watches about the timegraphers, and the author of that article gives some ranges on what he considers to be excellent vs. acceptable.
For amplitude, he states excellent @ 270 - 310.... and acceptable @ 250 - 270.
For beat error, he states excellent @ 0.0 - 0.5 msec.....and acceptable @ 0.6 - 1.0 msec.
Thoughts on those values/ranges?

I started off by winding the watch to 50 clockwise "turns" of the crown. Closed the crown and set the watch on the timegrapher. Next, I set the ramp angle on the timegrapher to the ramp angle that I found online. In this case, 52 degrees for a caliber 3135. Last I set the time interval to 30 seconds. It tested the watch in the usual 6 positions and let it sit in each position for about 1-2 minutes to make sure the movement was settled and the machine was producing repeatable results for that position. I've included a table with the individual values for each position and the average over all 6 positions. Your feedback on the measured amplitude and beat error, is appreciated. TIA

[watchmaker]

For amplitude the acceptable range is below 310 degrees on full wind and above 200 degrees after 24 hours.

Beat error max tolerance is 0.5

So, your amplitude looks good (though we need to see the results after 24 hours unwinding) and the beat error is too high.

Additionally, your average rate is too high but your delta (yours is 6 and the tolerance is 12) is very good - that is the difference between the extremes on the rate.

n.b. it is not uncommon for the reading of the beat error to be a false high after the movement is cased up. The microphone pics up an "echo" from the case. Easy way to check is to remove the caseback and apply pressure to the microphone to clamp it firmly against the case.

[Blueteg]

Scott, thanks for the reply. Here are the results after approximately 24 hours.
Your feedback is greatly appreciated.


*side note: I miskeyed the caliber # in the first post. Should be 3185. Oh well, can't edit the post/pic now.

[Ron P]

Not good. Should be over 200 degrees after 24h. Beat error way over the maximum as specified by Rolex.
Better start saving some money for a proper service.

[watchmaker]

Ron's spot on

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

For amplitude the acceptable range is below 310 degrees on full wind and above 200 degrees after 24 hours.

Beat error max tolerance is 0.5

So, your amplitude looks good (though we need to see the results after 24 hours unwinding) and the beat error is too high.

Additionally, your average rate is too high but your delta (yours is 6 and the tolerance is 12) is very good - that is the difference between the extremes on the rate.

n.b. it is not uncommon for the reading of the beat error to be a false high after the movement is cased up. The microphone pics up an "echo" from the case. Easy way to check is to remove the caseback and apply pressure to the microphone to clamp it firmly against the case.

It’s awesome to have someone like you here on the forum Scott.

Always appreciate your insightful and expert posts

[Ron P]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Ron's spot on

Yep, I was a watchmaker at Rolex some years ago, still know all the tricks.

[padi56]

Today IMHO things like Timegraphers and the rest of todays watch toys can and often will be Rolex owners worst enemy. In over 50 years of wearing and owning Rolex watches never felt the need for any of these things, myself just check time once a few weeks or so. If more that a minute out might adjust thank god my life was never ran to the exact second.

[Blueteg]

Originally Posted by Ron P

Not good. Should be over 200 degrees after 24h. Beat error way over the maximum as specified by Rolex.

Thanks Ron.
Regarding the beat error, what's your take on the beat error range(s) that I cited in my 1st post from the Bob's Watches article? Do you agree with those ranges? If not, what's your recommendation?

[Blueteg]

Originally Posted by padi56

Today IMHO things like Timegraphers and the rest of todays watch toys can and often will be Rolex owners worst enemy. In over 50 years of wearing and owning Rolex watches never felt the need for any of these things, myself just check time once a few weeks or so. If more that a minute out might adjust thank god my life was never ran to the exact second.

The reason I picked up this timegrapher was to help me get a better idea of the mechanical condition of some of the preowned watches I've purchased over the last few years. It's nice to have additional info on the condition of the movement besides just winding the watch and observing how many seconds it deviates from atomic time over the course of the day. I'm hoping it will help me get a better idea of which pieces are due for a service.

For those pieces that I've owned for a longer period of time and have been serviced while in my possession, I'm way less worried about what the timegrapher says about those ones. But I hear what you're saying and have read what some other guys have said in other threads about getting so caught up in what the timegrapher says that you're in a constant state of paranoia about the watches in your collection. LOL

[Smobews]

It needs a service. BE unacceptable. 24 hour amplitude too low. Spd way out of range. Nothing good to say about results.

[Blueteg]

Follow up on this....
I was curious if magnetization was playing a role in the results I shared above, so I downloaded one of those apps that uses your phone to determine the presence of magnetization. I attached the screenshot showing the peak reading (the blue line). I thought I would give one of those demagnetizers on Amazon a try and it seems to have worked well, as the EXP2 returned a zero reading on the magnet app, afterwards.

Demagnetizing the watch seems to have improved the SPD accuracy by a measurable amount. Not bad for $12 :)
I'm still going to plan for a service later this year, but thought I would share the timegrapher results after the de-mag machine.

[Ron P]

Originally Posted by Blueteg

Thanks Ron.
Regarding the beat error, what's your take on the beat error range(s) that I cited in my 1st post from the Bob's Watches article? Do you agree with those ranges? If not, what's your recommendation?

Rolex requires for the 3135: max 0,5 ms. personally I like to see this much smaller.
Most likely you will never notice the difference between 0ms and 0,5ms on the wrist.

However, if properly serviced, and that is what we do, you adjust to 0ms dial up and only in rare cases the beat is 0,3 ms in any of the other positions.
If properly serviced and adjusting if needed the position of the balance spring.

If you have 0,5 or more after service, most likely the deviation between positions is also relatively large. In our shop this meant you had to do more work on improving the position of the balance spring or correct other faults in the echappement or the balance itself.