Who's paying $13,000 for Datejusts?

[Podmornica]

"The night is darkest just before the dawn."

[worldofoyster]

you'll be surprise how many people is willing to pay that price

[logo]

Do people really think watches will go back to pre covid pricing/availability? Will the stock market? Will houses? There’s been a dramatic correction to watch prices already, and while I suspect the watch market may soften slightly more in the next 3-6 months, if you want a watch (from the secondary market) it’s probably best to not try and time the bottom. Just my opinion.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by logo

Do people really think watches will go back to pre covid pricing/availability? Will the stock market? Will houses? There’s been a dramatic correction to watch prices already, and while I suspect the watch market may soften slightly more in the next 3-6 months, if you want a watch (from the secondary market) it’s probably best to not try and time the bottom. Just my opinion.

Prices and demand will return to, and ultimately exceed pre-Covid levels. When that will happen, who knows, and I suspect prices will drop further before they start rising again. But it would take a much greater mind than mine to predict the bottom, so I don’t bother trying and just do what feels right at the time.


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[the dark knight]

I'd argue it's not the DJs that are overpriced, it's the steel sports that are underpriced based on supply/demand. Honestly the Explorer I or II is probably one 10% MSRP hike away from being readily available at ADs. That would mostly evaporate whatever little profit is left in flipping those models. Sub and GMT, maybe 2-3 such hikes away.

We live in a world where IWC thinks they can charge almost 12k for an Ingenieur and Grand Seiko almost 10k for their newer birch models. Rolex steel at MSRP are a flaming bargain, and the secondary market pricing (where supply/demand is more in cohesion) is a good example of this.

And before people say this would just raise secondary prices to match, we know that's not true. Rolex secondary prices on the whole have only dropped since their last major price hikes, due to the overall market demand.

Frankly, considering how long this supply/demand mismatch has been going on (from pre pandemic times) AND the major inflation most of the world has seen, I'm surprised Rolex hasn't been more aggressive raising prices. The Sub should be at least 12k MSRP, GMT at least 13k.

[Guppydriver]

I mean...

It's not a huge ask over retail. I think the "most preferred" config of a DJ is fluted with jubilee. That's a $10.5 US list. The average tax is probably around 7.5%. That puts retail at $11,287.

Lets say (as per the OP's post) you see a DJ for $12.5k at a gray dealer you trust. You offer $12-12.2K and he takes it. That's only an $800-1000 premium, real money but not suffocating. No waiting, no games, no gas spent driving to the AD.

I've always been "anti gray" or whatever, but the Exp II 226570 white dial I've been waiting 14 months for is now coming close to a grand premium for gray in like new condition with about 4 years warranty remaining. (compared to RRP plus my local tax).

Couple that with the ridiculously wonderful experience I just had with Thanh @Takuya for an out of production piece, and I may find myself doing what I never thought I would do, to technically pay over retail for a Rolex. I'll wait it out a bit longer for a call, but I'm close.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by guppydriver

i mean...

It's not a huge ask over retail. I think the "most preferred" config of a dj is fluted with jubilee. That's a $10.5 us list. The average tax is probably around 7.5%. That puts retail at $11,287.

Lets say (as per the op's post) you see a dj for $12.5k at a gray dealer you trust. You offer $12-12.2k and he takes it. That's only an $800-1000 premium, real money but not suffocating. No waiting, no games, no gas spent driving to the ad.

I've always been "anti gray" or whatever, but the exp ii 226570 white dial i've been waiting 14 months for is now coming close to a grand premium for gray in like new condition with about 4 years warranty remaining. (compared to rrp plus my local tax).

Couple that with the ridiculously wonderful experience i just had with thanh @takuya for an out of production piece, and i may find myself doing what i never thought i would do, to technically pay over retail for a rolex. I'll wait it out a bit longer for a call, but i'm close.

+1

[joli160]

It’s close enough to MSRP, have it tomorrow and no AD trickery. Who wouldn’t ?

[BillA]

Originally Posted by joli160

It’s close enough to MSRP, have it tomorrow and no AD trickery. Who wouldn’t ?

Agree, if close to MSRP, but when we are talking thousands over msrp, it is a no go for me.

[Rico_Brasole]

Originally Posted by Guppydriver

Lets say (as per the OP's post) you see a DJ for $12.5k at a gray dealer you trust. You offer $12-12.2K and he takes it. That's only an $800-1000 premium, real money but not suffocating. No waiting, no games, no gas spent driving to the AD.

Correct. But it’s a $800-$1000 premium for a used watch, 2-3 years old, polished to look like new.

I’ll pay $800 premium no problem, it’ll have to be 2023 right from the AD back door.


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[Oytun]

If i want it, and i can afford the premium part without feeling it

If i don't wan't to wait for an indefinite time

And if i will use it (not selling it in near future)

I'll just buy it without thinking twice.

Let's say you will wait for a year at an AD

Prices are increasing, what you paid to grey today can be close to retail price when it comes.

Assuming you're not making money with the money you spend on the watch...

[jb335]

Lol, not much over retail when factoring in sales tax and you get the watch in the exact config you want and you get it immediately.

My county sales tax rate is just a hair under 10%, which I know is criminally high but even if you take average of 7 or 8 % it’s not much more over list.


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[173rdabn]

Nope, not me.

[ppierce]

I guess for me its principal. Like I said a ND Sub at $9100 is an absolute steal as is a DJ41 Smooth/Oyster for $8000. Once you get into the $12k range to me its no longer a steal and now its the same price as a crappy car or half a semester of college.

[DavidUK]

In the UK new cars have become vastly over priced because many buyers use PCP (personal contract purchase) to pay £500-2,000 per month to have a new car every three years... for the rest of their life.

This idiocy must surely translate into instalment payments to buy the watch of their dreams.

In either case the purchase price is irrelevant. £45,000 for a Kia... £15,000 for a Rolex... it's the monthly payment that's the key thing to them.

I think it was Goldsmiths who would do interest free credit for your Rolex 6-7 years ago. Now that makes more sense, but it still plays to the monthly mentality.

My TT DJ41 was £9,350 back then. My new one, same configuration, different dial, on order, is now £12,100. Fortunately I have the cash.

[Ontime]

Ignore if the deal doesn't favor you.

[boltz]

Definitely not my deal.

[Rico_Brasole]

Who knows. The gray margins must be super tight.

A gray and I are $300 apart on a price. Rather then accepting my offer he would rather just continue to bump. Tells me that 1) they have almost no room to negotiate and 2) there aren’t that many buyers out there


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[AJMarcus]

Originally Posted by Rico_Brasole

Who knows. The gray margins must be super tight.

A gray and I are $300 apart on a price. Rather than accepting my offer he would rather just continue to bump. Tells me that 1) they have almost no room to negotiate and 2) there aren’t that many buyers out there :


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Sounds like his problem doesn’t it? My answer would then be, you should do something to incentivize buyers to purchase from you. It’s called a discount.

[Rico_Brasole]

Originally Posted by AJMarcus

Sounds like his problem doesn’t it? My answer would then be, you should do something to incentivize buyers to purchase from you. It’s called a discount.

Absolutely. My capital isn’t tied up in inventory whose value is declining week over week. In addition the majority of the market is praying on their collapse. Good Luck to Grey dealers, may the best survive. The rest can move on to selling mortgages at 8%


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[Know1isgod]

I like Rolex. Had 5 so far, but currently only one. Hope to get a second Rolex at retail or slightly above, but not pressed.

If the second hand market wants to offer 116900 Air Kings for $11K or higher, more power to therm. I'm not the sort of buyer they market to anyway.

[Colorado_kid]

I recently sold a DJ41 fluted dial for 10k to a dealer in California. They marked it up to 14k and sold within a couple days.


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[Rico_Brasole]

Originally Posted by Colorado_kid

I recently sold a DJ41 fluted dial for 10k to a dealer in California. They marked it up to 14k and sold within a couple days.


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Dang you already sold the mint green DJ?!?


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[Colorado_kid]

Originally Posted by Rico_Brasole

Dang you already sold the mint green DJ?!?


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Oh no, I actually had a fluted dial before that I sold to get the mint green. (Mint green will be passed down to our daughters hopefully in a long long time).


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[Rico_Brasole]

Originally Posted by Colorado_kid

Oh no, I actually had a fluted dial before that I sold to get the mint green. (Mint green will be passed down to our daughters hopefully in a long long time).


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Gotcha. I was about to say. It’s a gorgeous piece


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[Barada7]

Prices are down from their peak. Supply is increasing. There are more Rolex watches available from the grays than ever. Two tone watches can be found at or below MSRP. Makes no sense to pay over MSRP for a DJ. But then, it makes no sense to wear a mechanical watch at this point.

[ons2101]

First post in a long time

I went in wanting a stainless steel 36 mm Wimbledon jubilee / fluted

Turns out I liked the 2 tone everrose version of it, and got the call 2 weeks later from the AD it was available … sticker is $13k plus tax ! So with tax just under $14k…


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[SDR581]

DavidSW seems to be getting what he asks for his Datejusts. Saw a DJ41 blue stick dial for over $14K.

[BillA]

right now the large grays are in a tight spot (no sympathy here, they have been gauging us for years), they bought high and I think the market has dropped quicker than they thought. Give it a few months for them to unload on people who will pay crazy prices and things will get better in terms of lower pricing.

Recently I have made an offer on a piece or two which I think is a reasonable offer, but grey buy prices too high to justify, give it some time. I will be the first to supply the knife, fork, salt and pepper.

[douglasf13]

In the early 70’s, a steel DJ was slightly less than a SubDate, and a fluted DJ was a bit more than a SubDate…but the early ‘70s price of the SubDate was only a couple of grand in today’s money, so it’s all a bit ridiculous.