Any FP Journe guidance

[Armis]

I was taking note of some comments in the other subforums like AP where they point out how much market prices have decreased and continue so, to the point of pieces being at or below retail. Of course my only benchmark had been Chrono24, which apparently is the wrong benchmark. So, I was hoping to get input on whether the FP Journe prices have also come down drastically, and guidance on particular models that are at a good level to buy now.
Because of low production, it’s been hard getting anything from the boutique. What I’ve had in mind is specifically platinum pieces including the CS Havana or the more challenging Automatique and the most challenging Optimum.

I don’t know what retail is for any of these, so not sure how to gauge market pricing. So, any resources, information, or guidance is much appreciated.
Thank you all.

[southnc]

The current prices are still way above what they were a few years ago. They are still "unobtanium" to me.

[uscmatt99]

Prices have trended downward, up to $20k even for the regular 40mm CS models from the peak. But they are still quite elevated compared to MSRP as far as I've seen, and way more than they were 5-7 years ago. I lucked into mine before the hype on the pre-owned market, no way I could afford a pre-owned one now. Also, even though I've kept in touch with the SA I worked with for getting my piece serviced, I have not gotten the miraculous phone call that my next desired watch is available.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Armis

I was taking note of some comments in the other subforums like AP where they point out how much market prices have decreased and continue so, to the point of pieces being at or below retail. Of course my only benchmark had been Chrono24, which apparently is the wrong benchmark. So, I was hoping to get input on whether the FP Journe prices have also come down drastically, and guidance on particular models that are at a good level to buy now.
Because of low production, it’s been hard getting anything from the boutique. What I’ve had in mind is specifically platinum pieces including the CS Havana or the more challenging Automatique and the most challenging Optimum.

I don’t know what retail is for any of these, so not sure how to gauge market pricing. So, any resources, information, or guidance is much appreciated.
Thank you all.

I am not sure what the current market price is. But CO has a 10+ year wait as told by the boutique. Production is very small due to only small batch of movements being made. I got the impression that the CO may even be harder to get than a RQ but I did not seek to clarify.

The Automatique and CS should be similar "difficulty" for the same dial. I don't know how much harder is the Havana vs the silver dial though.

I did see a silver dial minute repeater being listed at close to boutique price though but I think the seller would still make decent money as it was an older vintage before all the price increases.

My advice is that if you can visit a boutique; just visit regularly and showed that you are a real collector. I do believe that patience and perseverance will eventually pay off. You may not get anything for the first 1-2 years but eventually something will show up.

[Armis]

Originally Posted by southnc

The current prices are still way above what they were a few years ago. They are still "unobtanium" to me.

I was worried that would be the case. *sigh*

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

Prices have trended downward, up to $20k even for the regular 40mm CS models from the peak. But they are still quite elevated compared to MSRP as far as I've seen, and way more than they were 5-7 years ago. I lucked into mine before the hype on the pre-owned market, no way I could afford a pre-owned one now. Also, even though I've kept in touch with the SA I worked with for getting my piece serviced, I have not gotten the miraculous phone call that my next desired watch is available.

Then preowned isn’t happening for me either. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Originally Posted by llngoc

I am not sure what the current market price is. But CO has a 10+ year wait as told by the boutique. Production is very small due to only small batch of movements being made. I got the impression that the CO may even be harder to get than a RQ but I did not seek to clarify.

The Automatique and CS should be similar "difficulty" for the same dial. I don't know how much harder is the Havana vs the silver dial though.

I did see a silver dial minute repeater being listed at close to boutique price though but I think the seller would still make decent money as it was an older vintage before all the price increases.

My advice is that if you can visit a boutique; just visit regularly and showed that you are a real collector. I do believe that patience and perseverance will eventually pay off. You may not get anything for the first 1-2 years but eventually something will show up.

Wow, that is a crazy wait for the CO, but I believe it.
Your advice about visiting a boutique is the best recommendation, but nothing accessible except by flight. I had met with an SA in boutique initially in 2018, and then saw him again in 2021, and have periodically touched base by email…but still nothing has come of it. To your point, I feel in person meetings again would make a bigger impact (I think), but again the travel isn’t possible like before. We’ll see, perhaps if a work related trip comes up. Nonetheless, thank you for your input.

[WatchEater666]

Their prices have been heavily manipulated by WatchBox since ~2020 or so.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them keep dropping as overall business slows down for dealers, similar to Rolex/PP/AP.

Personally I would just wait.

[GB-man]

FPJ’s allocation strategy has a clear regional targeting strategy. I’ve been told as much by the employees. They favor people who live near the boutiques. Even though I have 3 FPJ I’m unlikely to get another because I don’t fly out to NYC every first Tuesday to eat dry canapés and rub shoulders. I’m at peace with that.

Buy a CS on the grey market and test your desire before making the commitment of your time which is far more valuable.

[Armis]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Their prices have been heavily manipulated by WatchBox since ~2020 or so.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them keep dropping as overall business slows down for dealers, similar to Rolex/PP/AP.

Personally I would just wait.

You’re right, looking again at prices, waiting is what I have to do for now.

[Armis]

Originally Posted by GB-man

FPJ’s allocation strategy has a clear regional targeting strategy. I’ve been told as much by the employees. They favor people who live near the boutiques. Even though I have 3 FPJ I’m unlikely to get another because I don’t fly out to NYC every first Tuesday to eat dry canapés and rub shoulders. I’m at peace with that.

Buy a CS on the grey market and test your desire before making the commitment of your time which is far more valuable.

Thanks, GB. That is sobering to read, but also not surprising since proximity allows people to follow up regularly.

By chance, would you know what current retail is for the CS Havana in platinum? I was looking at grey pricing, but didn’t know what to compare it to with pricing being so crazy. I credit AP and PP for at least including prices for most pieces on their websites.

[crod]

Hi the current list prices are:

CS Havana Plat $42.8K USD
AUTOMATIQUE Plat $50.6K USD
CO Plat $129.5K USD

Before 2020 the brand had a relatively small niche and loyal following of die hard collectors which was not enough to sell the more less 800 watches easily. So you could get pieces in the 2nd hand market in much lower prices than retail.
It started changing in 2018 with the explosion in demand for the CB and in 2020 for all the other pieces.
Now there are MUCH MORE people who love Journe and appreciate the brand and with a 800 pieces per year production it doesnt get too many people to sell everything. FP has stated multiple times that he wont make more watches so demand has grown a lot and production is the same.
Yes there has been a correction in the crazy prices but as long as they have long waitlists in the boutiques which they certainly have the prices in the 2nd hand will remain strong. For this to change a lot of people would have to leave and be disappointed with the watches which I dont see happening soon, FPJ collectors are very informed and involved with the brand.

[dchang81]

Did the allocations for 24 already go out? I'm assuming I'm missing out on year 5....

[Ichiran]

Journe makes 900 mechanical watches and another 500 Élégante per year. His annual production is around 1,400.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Journe makes 900 mechanical watches and another 500 Élégante per year. His annual production is around 1,400.

Elegantes don’t count they are ladies quartz watches. Thats like counting the peddle cars Ferrari licenses towards their annual production.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Elegantes don’t count they are ladies quartz watches. Thats like counting the peddle cars Ferrari licenses towards their annual production.

Then the 24 production shd be excluded from Patek 63,000 production figures too.

Btw Mr FP Journe wore an Élégante to our dinner. John Mayer wore an Élégante during his performance. A few of my guy friends too. Men do wear Élégante...

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Then the 24 production shd be excluded from Patek 63,000 production figures too.

Btw Mr FP Journe wore an Élégante to our dinner. Men do wear Élégante...

When journe would quote production figures they usually left out the elegante....

[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by dchang81

Did the allocations for 24 already go out? I'm assuming I'm missing out on year 5....

I know a few people have received the 2024 allocation, but I can't speak for everyone.

I think it should be easier to get allocation going forward with the correction in the watch market.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by dakkonmc

I know a few people have received the 2024 allocation, but I can't speak for everyone.

I think it should be easier to get allocation going forward with the correction in the watch market.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

The allocation at the boutique seems to go out around late November to mid-late December. So even if you do not get a call, you probably still have a month to find out. Last year I got the call mid-December.

I am sure with a lot of the speculators going away, it should help a little. But from meeting with some of the collectors through the boutique, many of them still have quite a list which cannot be filled for a while. Especially for the high complication pieces like RQ or CO. The brand has been doing a good job of cultivating a fanbase.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Then the 24 production shd be excluded from Patek 63,000 production figures too.

Btw Mr FP Journe wore an Élégante to our dinner. John Mayer wore an Élégante during his performance. A few of my guy friends too. Men do wear Élégante...

And each one of them made a bad choice. This was designed as a watch for your wife from the start and I won’t be convinced it’s even remotely interesting as a man’s watch.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by GB-man

And each one of them made a bad choice. This was designed as a watch for your wife from the start and I won’t be convinced it’s even remotely interesting as a man’s watch.

I mean i liked the elegante enough to buy one. But when the box/packaging is designed to look like a ring jewelry box.......

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by GB-man

And each one of them made a bad choice. This was designed as a watch for your wife from the start and I won’t be convinced it’s even remotely interesting as a man’s watch.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...57&postcount=2

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...57&postcount=2

Exactly this is a thread where I try and convince people to buy a linesport instead. Did you read the thread?

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by dchang81

I mean i liked the elegante enough to buy one. But when the box/packaging is designed to look like a ring jewelry box.......

I mean we all remember the launch of this line. I thought it was really well thought out as my own wife hates setting her Rolex. What I didn’t think was man I wish they made this for me.

It doesn’t surprise me that it’s popular honestly the way men continue to emasculate themselves with fashion. This would pair nicely with a man Birkin and one of those head scarfs.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Exactly this is a thread where I try and convince people to buy a linesport instead. Did you read the thread?

Did you read the post I quoted? That's your own post. And it contradicts what you said about Élégante being a ladies watch above. Maybe your view changed.
"As far as I know there’s the 40 for women and 48 for men. Either could be worn by anyone I suppose."

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Did you read the post I quoted? That's your own post. And it contradicts what you said about Élégante being a ladies watch above.
"As far as I know there’s the 40 for women and 48 for men. Either could be worn by anyone I suppose."

I think maybe we have a misunderstanding as we are typing and not speaking face to face. What I mean is simply that the genesis of this line is Francois Paul designed a watch that he thought would appeal to women. I think he succeeded in that. I also think the design will always be rooted in that.

Yes they identified a market for a larger model for men but they didn’t change anything it’s still a design he had in mind for women.

As a side note is this a watch you wear often? I can’t imagine this is your cup of tea based on your collection.

In the peak of the market people were paying the same or more for these as a first Journe in lieu of a CS or ARS2 which I stand by was and remains a terrible choice.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I think maybe we have a misunderstanding as we are typing and not speaking face to face. What I mean is simply that the genesis of this line is Francois Paul designed a watch that he thought would appeal to women. I think he succeeded in that. I also think the design will always be rooted in that.

Yes they identified a market for a larger model for men but they didn’t change anything it’s still a design he had in mind for women.

As a side note is this a watch you wear often? I can’t imagine this is your cup of tea based on your collection.

In the peak of the market people were paying the same or more for these as a first Journe in lieu of a CS or ARS2 which I stand by was and remains a terrible choice.

Thanks for clarifying but I don't own an Élégante and don't intend to buy 1 too. You are right it is not my cup of tea.

[gm58]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Journe makes 900 mechanical watches and another 500 Élégante per year. His annual production is around 1,400.

oh interesting! I always thought that he was going to cap at 900 INCLUDING elegantes (i.e. total production capped under 1000) - that is consistent with the messaging in his newsletters tho

[Armis]

Originally Posted by crod

Hi the current list prices are:

CS Havana Plat $42.8K USD
AUTOMATIQUE Plat $50.6K USD
CO Plat $129.5K USD

Before 2020 the brand had a relatively small niche and loyal following of die hard collectors which was not enough to sell the more less 800 watches easily. So you could get pieces in the 2nd hand market in much lower prices than retail.
It started changing in 2018 with the explosion in demand for the CB and in 2020 for all the other pieces.
Now there are MUCH MORE people who love Journe and appreciate the brand and with a 800 pieces per year production it doesnt get too many people to sell everything. FP has stated multiple times that he wont make more watches so demand has grown a lot and production is the same.
Yes there has been a correction in the crazy prices but as long as they have long waitlists in the boutiques which they certainly have the prices in the 2nd hand will remain strong. For this to change a lot of people would have to leave and be disappointed with the watches which I dont see happening soon, FPJ collectors are very informed and involved with the brand.

Thank you very much, crod. The pricing is very helpful, and the historical perspective is invaluable. Kudos to collectors like yourself who appreciated FPJ design language and innovation early. Honestly, it was the use of negative space that I didn’t “understand” or appreciate which resulted in my mixed feelings. But that perspective on design (not just in watches) has evolved and intrigues me. And of course there are the technical aspects of a number of pieces that one must recognize. The design and ease of the QP really stands out in my mind as I remember trying it on. Oh well, c’est la vie.

[kaiserphoenix]

The 2024 allocations are out as I have just received news what will arrive for me in 2024.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by gm58

oh interesting! I always thought that he was going to cap at 900 INCLUDING elegantes (i.e. total production capped under 1000) - that is consistent with the messaging in his newsletters tho

My AD recently sent a team to FP Journe HQ for training and my SE told me their current production stands at 900 + 500. I was a little surprised because I always thought their production is at 900 per year.

In fact, SJX quoted 1000 + 400-500 in their Oct 2023 article. This is a very informative write-up of FP Journe's manufacture in Geneva.
https://watchesbysjx.com/2023/10/ins...ure-visit.html

[GB-man]

FWIW I’ve always been told it was 900 or so mechanical watches per year and they are open enough to divulge actual figures for specific references etc if you know who to ask. There are numerous FPJ standard production watches that only 10-20 examples were made of a particular variation which is part of the fun.

The fact that they can pump out 400-500 elegante without affecting their capacity tells you all you need to know before going out and paying 40k+ for one. At retail I see no problem just don’t pay a premium please.