Reaching the End with Rolex - Advice on Next Acquisition - DJ41, JLC, Ingeniuer

[dmash]

Originally Posted by phillyEagles

Great choice indeed.




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These hit so much above their league for the price you can pick them up. I am doing an overhaul of my collection and was just in the situation of being able to pick up:

Option 1:
$15k- New Omega 3861 + New GP Laureato

Vs

Option 2:
$75k- New Daytona + New RO

FIVE TIMES as much for option 2, yet I think the Omega looks better, GP has better WR and more comfortable bracelet, and multiple other factors. I obviously chose option 1 (granted I did get a bit of a good deal). Rolex/AP/PP hype is opening the door on some amazing bargains for other brands.

[jmgorman]

Originally Posted by Poodlopogus

For me, the Ingenieur isn't as overpriced relative to Rolex as it is relative to other, more similar watches.

When I think about three-handed, integrated bracelet watches that are $10-15,000, I think of:

GP Laureato (the clear winner)
Zenith Defy
Chopard Alpine Eagle

Each bests the Ingenieur in my mind.

I also love the Laureato - the smaller model was a surprise, but OP seems to prefer a bigger watch. The Zenith is so chonky - the thickness really makes it wear awkwardly. I really, really want to like the Alpine Eagle, but I feel like the design flourishes are distracting in a sportwatch.

[Poodlopogus]

Originally Posted by jmgorman

I also love the Laureato - the smaller model was a surprise, but OP seems to prefer a bigger watch. The Zenith is so chonky - the thickness really makes it wear awkwardly. I really, really want to like the Alpine Eagle, but I feel like the design flourishes are distracting in a sportwatch.

Agree on the Zenith Defy 41mm. The Pilot is a much, much better execution of a three-hand El Primero watch, IMO (and it's nuts that it can be had new for less than $1,000 over the IWC Mk XX).

If one wants the integrated style w/o the thickness, there are still Defy Classics floating around out there in dealer cases, but I think they came primarily in titanium (there may have been PM versions) They have the Elite, though.

[enjoythemusic]

Guess it depends if you choose to be a follower or a leader.

Obviously AP / PP for followers.

H. Moser if you're a leader.

MB&F if your an adventurer.

Jmho

[exp90]

Another vote for VC.

[dannyboy123]

By way of an update I pulled the trigger on the black dialled IWC Ingenieur yesterday. Got a small discount. Buying duty free so dont get it until I travel overseas in November.

[Obi Wan]

What about a A. Lange & Söhne or Glashütte with perpetual calendar?

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by dannyboy123

By way of an update I pulled the trigger on the black dialled IWC Ingenieur yesterday. Got a small discount. Buying duty free so dont get it until I travel overseas in November.

Very nice, congrats!! Looking forward to the pics.

[dmash]

Update- I tried on the Laureato after buying, man the 42 felt a smidge too big for the plain design and bezel. I ended up selling it because of this. Highly suggest anybody reading this thread to try one on in store, as I felt it was more dinner plate than a sub for example.

[1William]

Congratulations.

[Poodlopogus]

Originally Posted by dmash

Update- I tried on the Laureato after buying, man the 42 felt a smidge too big for the plain design and bezel. I ended up selling it because of this. Highly suggest anybody reading this thread to try one on in store, as I felt it was more dinner plate than a sub for example.

Too bad, as it's a watch I always "root for" but in reality I'm not sure why they had to go so big for what is essentially the only option (save the copper and green ceramic variants). I could see doing 42 for the chronograph, or other more complicated versions, but not the three-hander.

I think there's a reason most (AP, VC, PP, Breguet, Chopard, PF, Zenith, IWC) top out at 41 for "standard" size these days for simple three-handers. Honestly, I think even that is too big and wouldn't be looking at anything over 38 (preferably 36/37).

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Poodlopogus

Too bad, as it's a watch I always "root for" but in reality I'm not sure why they had to go so big for what is essentially the only option (save the copper and green ceramic variants). I could see doing 42 for the chronograph, or other more complicated versions, but not the three-hander.

I think there's a reason most (AP, VC, PP, Breguet, Chopard, PF, Zenith, IWC) top out at 41 for "standard" size these days for simple three-handers. Honestly, I think even that is too big and wouldn't be looking at anything over 38 (preferably 36/37).

GP would be perfect at 40 for me after wearing. I also prefer the older 15300 39 from AP for example. For the price I really, really wanted the GP to work. But yeah, something felt off.

[Clockmeister]

RO for the win.

[928ktgold]

Don’t get a datejust. You have a DD. You’ll never wear it

[928ktgold]

Delete

[Poodlopogus]

Originally Posted by dmash

GP would be perfect at 40 for me after wearing. I also prefer the older 15300 39 from AP for example. For the price I really, really wanted the GP to work. But yeah, something felt off.

Yea, my favorites, in terms of size, were always:

PP 5066 (35.5mm)
AP 15550 (37mm)
PP 3800 (37mm)
VC 42042 (37mm) - esp the black Arabic numeral version
Rolex 1530 (36mm)

Digging pretty far back into the archives for some of these but they are among my favorite integrated bracelet watches.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by dmash

Update- I tried on the Laureato after buying, man the 42 felt a smidge too big for the plain design and bezel. I ended up selling it because of this. Highly suggest anybody reading this thread to try one on in store, as I felt it was more dinner plate than a sub for example.

The copper 38 is really nice. I don’t know why GP doesn’t re-expand the 38 range with more fial choices… that being said, they used to have a wider 38 range and discontinued them. Maybe they don’t sell to the average watch buyer?

[dannyboy123]

Originally Posted by dmash

Update- I tried on the Laureato after buying, man the 42 felt a smidge too big for the plain design and bezel. I ended up selling it because of this. Highly suggest anybody reading this thread to try one on in store, as I felt it was more dinner plate than a sub for example.

I nearly bought one online recently without trying it on, clearly I didn't, and I'm glad, because I did eventually try one in Singapore and my feelings about it mirrored yours. It's a really nice watch but it was too big on my 6.75" and dial was a tad empty. Still a fantastic watch, be great at 40mm. Conversely the 38mm too small.

[dannyboy123]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

The copper 38 is really nice. I don’t know why GP doesn’t re-expand the 38 range with more fial choices… that being said, they used to have a wider 38 range and discontinued them. Maybe they don’t sell to the average watch buyer?

I totally agree with you. I think they'd do really well if they kept and expanded the 38mm range and also introduced 40mm options - be a great seller I'd have thought.

[Poodlopogus]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

The copper 38 is really nice. I don’t know why GP doesn’t re-expand the 38 range with more fial choices… that being said, they used to have a wider 38 range and discontinued them. Maybe they don’t sell to the average watch buyer?

My feeling on the copper is: If I had a collection of 25 watches and no meaningful budget constraints, sure, why not; it's a little different, nice color, etc. I feel similarly about the OP36 in green lacquer. The reality is, I have a handful, anything new I add is "last one for a while," so they all need to be pretty classic and versatile.

Agree on the 38, and hope they resume production of a wider variety of them. They used to have soooo many, and good ones, too! My favorites was the silver, but blue and black were also beautiful. There was also a 38mm chronograph and some rose gold pieces, with many versions of these available on leather, too.

I once asked in a GP AD why, and they said because the production capacity was needed elsewhere. Perhaps all the special editions they did, as well as the more complex ones (that obviously require more resources to produce)?

In any event, hopefully they will make a return as they were beautifully proportioned pieces.

[GVAZQUEZ]

Originally Posted by bp1000

Based on the watches you have, consider a VC overseas

Agree VC overseas or Jacob Epic X they are a very nice sports watch.


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[Wcdhtwn]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Fine. Let's compare a Rolex Submariner or GMT and an Ingenieur:

* Finishing? Ingenieur is better in all facets.

* Movement? Ingenieur's specs are better than the 3135 or 3235. Is the Ingenieur's movement available in cheaper watches? Yes. But, last time I checked, one gets a whole watch when one buys an Ingenieur, not just a movement. Oh, and Rolex also uses non-date versions of its 3235 in cheaper watches like OPs...Does that mean a Sub or GMT also are 5k watches, and Rolex also a shameful money grabbing corporation like IWC?

* Dial? Ingenieur's dial is better finished, more interesting and has about 1,400 less words on it.

* Bracelet? I would say a tie....Perhaps the Rolex is more "solid", but the Ingenieur is better finished.

* Clasp? Yes, Rolex has micro-adjustment, but they are large and rather inelegant, especially in comparison to the Ingenieur's. Oh, and the Nautilus and RO don't have micro-adjustment clasps...Does that also make them 5k watches?

* Cost? Yes, the Ingenieur is overpriced. One pays at least 2k for the Genta heritage. For the same heritage, one can pay three times more for a Jumbo or 5711. And, so what? Subs and GMTs are overpriced, too. These are luxury watches.

I’ll bring Chopard Alpine Eagle into the mix. Very similar and even though it doesn’t say L.U.C. the movement is a L.U.C.

[Poodlopogus]

Originally Posted by Wcdhtwn

I’ll bring Chopard Alpine Eagle into the mix. Very similar and even though it doesn’t say L.U.C. the movement is a L.U.C.

Not exactly. Only the XP/XPS has an L.U.C. movement (I believe the latter also bears the Geneva Seal). Those are truly beautiful movements (not that the "regular" Chopard movements aren't fantastic).

Though a little gimmicky, the Cadence is kind of cool, with its 8hz frequency. Mostly a "hey, look what we can do" but still cool.

[Wcdhtwn]

Originally Posted by Poodlopogus

Not exactly. Only the XP/XPS has an L.U.C. movement (I believe the latter also bears the Geneva Seal). Those are truly beautiful movements (not that the "regular" Chopard movements aren't fantastic).

Though a little gimmicky, the Cadence is kind of cool, with its 8hz frequency. Mostly a "hey, look what we can do" but still cool.

I don’t know them that well. I was at a watch event last weekend and the regional Chopard rep said the Alpine Eagles have LUC movements. But maybe that explains the $10K difference between the AEs and the AE XPs and XPSs on their Website.