Supposed rare early submariner inherited, please tell me more!!!

[EGP]

I have a rolex submariner oyster perpetual which I am having trouble identifying. It is a tiffany and co. marked watch. It does not seem to have the 'maxi dials', and I am told that the watch is from the fifties. I have read that there is significance in the depth rating, which reads 200m-360ft m and ft are in itallics if this is significant). apparently earlier and more valuable watches have the m reading before the ft, and importantly I cannot seem to find any other watches with similar depths specified (oddly 200m is not 360ft, is there some explaination?). It does have the mercedes hour hand. At the very bottom it says 'SWISS'. On the twisty dial it has minute markings up until 15 minutes, and from then on regular five minute markings to the hour.
When I got it, it was completely dead, as it had been in my grandfather's sock drawer since the 70s, and the metal strap had snapped off. The little insert on the top of the twist-dial had fallen out, and the dial was very difficult to turn. The screen was so scratched you could barely read the text under, and was yellow with age, while all of the metal was very dull and had tears of dirt in all of the cracks. I brought it to rolex (all of the shop attendants were immediately called over to have a look and there was much ooing and aahing at the old broken watch) who recommended I re-polish the whole item, and replace the screen and insert, as well as restoring all of the seals and mechanism.
From top to bottom the text reads
(rolex crown logo)
ROLEX
oyster perpetual
(watch hands)
Tiffany & CO.
200m - 360 ft
SUBMARINER
SUPERLATIVE CHRONOMETER
OFFICIALLY CERTIFIED
(and at the very bottom- SWISS)
I don't really want to sell it at all, but am VERY interested in hearing opinions, the value of and the history of the watch. I am new to rolex by the way.

[Dr.Brian]

I can't tell you about your watch, but if you post photos, we might be able to help. Even camera phone photos in good light.
One thing I can tell you is that if it is rare and collectible, you don't want them, or the Rolex service center working on it.

Originally Posted by EGP

I have a rolex submariner oyster perpetual which I am having trouble identifying. It is a tiffany and co. marked watch. It does not seem to have the 'maxi dials', and I am told that the watch is from the fifties. I have read that there is significance in the depth rating, which reads 200m-360ft m and ft are in itallics if this is significant). apparently earlier and more valuable watches have the m reading before the ft, and importantly I cannot seem to find any other watches with similar depths specified (oddly 200m is not 360ft, is there some explaination?). It does have the mercedes hour hand. At the very bottom it says 'SWISS'. On the twisty dial it has minute markings up until 15 minutes, and from then on regular five minute markings to the hour.
When I got it, it was completely dead, as it had been in my grandfather's sock drawer since the 70s, and the metal strap had snapped off. The little insert on the top of the twist-dial had fallen out, and the dial was very difficult to turn. The screen was so scratched you could barely read the text under, and was yellow with age, while all of the metal was very dull and had tears of dirt in all of the cracks. I brought it to rolex (all of the shop attendants were immediately called over to have a look and there was much ooing and aahing at the old broken watch) who recommended I re-polish the whole item, and replace the screen and insert, as well as restoring all of the seals and mechanism.
From top to bottom the text reads
(rolex crown logo)
ROLEX
oyster perpetual
(watch hands)
Tiffany & CO.
200m - 360 ft
SUBMARINER
SUPERLATIVE CHRONOMETER
OFFICIALLY CERTIFIED
(and at the very bottom- SWISS)
I don't really want to sell it at all, but am VERY interested in hearing opinions, the value of and the history of the watch. I am new to rolex by the way.

[austinnh]

Pictures would certainly help. I've never heard of a 200m = 360 ft.

The Rolex shop or service center may replace the dial or hands and hurt the value of the vintage watch.

[GradyPhilpott]

Check out this thread.

I'll look for more info until an expert arrives.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=13986

[kyle L]

Pictures would be the best...

[fusionstorm]

It sounds like the dial got corroded to the point where the "200m=660ft" text looks like it says 360ft.

IIRC, your Sub's dial couldn't be from the 50s. Subs were only rated to 100m then if memory serves me correctly.

Pics of the dial and between both lugs would go a long way to ID'ing your watch properly.

[burger'n'fries]

Welcome to the forum. You have to post some pictures, govna!

[exxondus]

does the older subs read "oyster perpetual"?

[bb3188]

Originally Posted by fusionstorm

It sounds like the dial got corroded to the point where the "200m=660ft" text looks like it says 360ft.

IIRC, your Sub's dial couldn't be from the 50s. Subs were only rated to 100m then if memory serves me correctly.

Pics of the dial and between both lugs would go a long way to ID'ing your watch properly.

........
one possibility is an early 5512( with the 4 line depth/chronometer certified) from late 50's(if it is from the 50's).......... but the tiffany & co has me stumped

[exxondus]

Originally Posted by fusionstorm

It sounds like the dial got corroded to the point where the "200m=660ft" text looks like it says 360ft.

IIRC, your Sub's dial couldn't be from the 50s. Subs were only rated to 100m then if memory serves me correctly.

Pics of the dial and between both lugs would go a long way to ID'ing your watch properly.

frankly speaking, I don see how a 6 can be corroded to look like a 3.

TS: would you kindly post pics? the descriptions makes it sound...er...weird to say the least. no offence intended

[rangrov]

pics please.......

[Macro80]

Im calling Troll on this.

[Dilemma]

Originally Posted by Macro80

Im calling Troll on this.

,,,,and it only took 12 posts.

[bb3188]

Originally Posted by exxondus

does the older subs read "oyster perpetual"?

yes this applies to all subs without the date function..:)

[EGP]

ok guys a little bit of an embarrassing admission.. I think I misread the watchface to see 330, when it is probably 660, but I have attached the picture that convinced me it read that, and I think you'll agree it does look like that...
Anyhow, this pic was quickly taken as I reluctantly handed the watch over for (19 weeks so far! s***!) its service as a little momento on my iphone, so is no perfect studio shot.
The story on the watch goes that my great grandfather was given the watch by a wealthy friend as a present for tracing down his daughter who had eloped from their 5th Avenue mansion to Seattle with the family chauffeur, some time between 1956-1962.
Can anyone tell me about the winding thing? If I look at pictures of the earliest submariners, they have a much thinner silver edging, or as this has a firly thick one like newer watches, when was this changed?? (also are there technical terms for these parts....?)

[Lol-x]

That is an amazing watch. I hope for your sake that the original dial/hands and bezel insert have been retained. That is very important to the collectability, value and history of this watch.




Whatever you do, do not let any watchmaker change the hands/dial/bezel.

[DS_Obsessed]

Looks like a keeper.

[buke45]

Very nice!!! Looks fine to me.

[bb3188]

be sure to remind your watchmaker not to change that dial......... hard to tell from the photos but if the dial is all original,.......thats quite rare indeed.........:)

[ParisDakarBmw]

Lighting could help a little, but the patina on the lume looks to match, and the dial looks to be a gilt dial. You should be able to take a better series of pictures to help us identify the watch.

Try taking pictures in the sun, and let the natural light reflect on the dial. Second take pictures of the case back, and between the lugs. The pictures of the bracelet clasp, and the writing on the clasp will help too.

I like what I see, but better pics would help identify, and also tell if the dial is a "redial".

How much of the watch's history are you aware of?

[Renoir]

That "exclamation" dial is pretty rare....especially with the T & Co. Markings.

[Lol-x]

Do not even get that dial 're-finished' just leave it alone!!! Natural age and beauty cannot be improved upon with this watch

[Colnago]

EGP....as most have said...it is essential to keep this particular watch as ORIGINAL as is possible....it makes a massive massive difference to its value.....some of the watch terminology may go over your head (no disrespect here at all) but it is vital that you understand which parts should not be replaced.....it sounds like you have already handed it over to someone, my advice would be to tell the guy to stop work if you feel he is going to just replace visible parts....essentially the ONLY thing he should replace is the crystal (glass, lens, whatever you want to call it)....everything else that you can see you really want to stay.....hopefully if he already replaced some parts he has kept the old parts and can give you them back or better still put them back where they were......it will be a brilliant watch if it is what it looks like it is......fantastic for you!!!!

[Dr.Brian]

I hope that you read what Stevo wrote above. If they replace the original parts, the value of the watch will decrease dramatically. What exactly are they doing with it? I could polish the crystal clear in 5 minutes. I'm sure it needed a movement service though and some new gaskets. I hope, for your sake, it's not too late. If they did replace the dial, hands, etc. Insist on keeping the originals, that is assuming that they didn't damage them. There are many examples of service centers ruining a rare and valuable watch because the repair tech and/or the owner didn't know any better
What are the first 2 or 3 digits of the serial number? It would be on your receipt. That would be useful in dating the watch for you, and determining what it should look like.

[Colnago]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brian

I hope that you read what Stevo wrote above. If they replace the original parts, the value of the watch will decrease dramatically. What exactly are they doing with it? I could polish the crystal clear in 5 minutes. I'm sure it needed a movement service though and some new gaskets. I hope, for your sake, it's not too late. If they did replace the dial, hands, etc. Insist on keeping the originals, that is assuming that they didn't damage them. There are many examples of service centers ruining a rare and valuable watch because the repair tech and/or the owner didn't know any better
What are the first 2 or 3 digits of the serial number? It would be on your receipt. That would be useful in dating the watch for you, and determining what it should look like.

Good point on the crystal, Brian.....I was just so excited by the picture I clean forgot about that....I wouldn't care I have two plexi's myself!!!

[austinnh]

Who is servicing it? You must not let them replace or re-finish the dial or hands!

[marke]

looks like a 5512 or somthing

[moviefreak]

Go get your watch... keep it as it is.. all original.. DO NOT EVEN WEAR IT (ok maybe New Year and Christmas and your birthday.. but only for a couple of hours each day )... keep it stored and every once in a while... post pictures for us...

[mike]

Welcome.

As others have said it appears you have a rather early 5512 with gilt dial, enclosed minute track, and exclamation point. Such dials are quite collectable and any replacement of the dial/hands set would greatly impact the value of the watch(not to mention the heirloom effect the watch brings).

The time frame you quote is consistent with the appearance of the watch (I would lean toward the latter part, but it important to remember crossove periods with Rolex are normal).

That it says Tiffany is important. This is also known as a double name watch as Tiffany (along with others over the years) had their name put on the dial.

As an heirloom the watch is priceless. It is noteworthy however that Tiffany, unlike some other concerns did not put a physical mark on the case to identify their watches save the name on the face.

Because of this some collectors shy away from such pieces without original paperwork. (To me it looks pretty good, but I'm no way an expert on these dials and copying the Tiffany logo is a favorite among those with less than honest intentions).

It's also noteworthy that the Tiffany font changed a few times over the years and even between various references.

I think it looks good!!

I would agree with those that say be VERY carefull about who services the watch as value can be gutted by someone with less than ideal experience. Your RSC would be the first choice as this would give you the paperwork you need with the reference.

I also agree with those that feel they might just gut the watch.

A service is critical on the watch to preserve the movement/dial/hands etc...

I'll disagree a bit with keeping the original crystal. A service replacement is by far safer and has little impact on the value IMO (though we always like original).

Why?

Acryllic tends to crack over the years (stress cracks at the point of contact due to way it's fitted). It's the reason Rolex replaces them at service to maintain the WR rating.

Even if the watch does not see water, moisture in the form of humidity can enter the case and over time reek havoc (your dial/hands movement).

The "twisty" thing is the bezel and insert. It should move in both directions with no clicking noise (it's called a friction-fit and was standard during your timeframe).

You are missing the tritium pearl on the insert-they can be had.

Congrats on a treasured piece! Take your time and do it justice and remember the heritage it carries.

[Dilemma]

So. The OP is NOT a troll. Good for the OP!