Rolex Submariner with NO case reference number markings

[Whoop!]

Photos attached.
Thank you for that web site Greekbum. Haven't had time to investigate it yet but it looks promising.
There is only one stamp behind the lugs. Under high magnification it almost looks like a stylized bird with a small circle over it. Could not get the lighting right for the photo so once again it is more obvious in person.
In the photo it almost looks as if the area is raised above the surface of the lug. It is not however.
Forgot to polish it. Forgive the fingerprints

[rangrov]

I am sorry to say. That case to me is an obvious fake. Whoop please get it checked out correctly. thanks........

[austinnh]

Again you are calling it fake without pointing to any evidence. Please enlighten us as to how you are able to tell this is fake. Are the stamps not in the correct location for a sub of this vintage? The color of the Gold (which could be altered by the photo)? I guess it's not the crown guards since you didn't mention them before cht did, although I do agree that they are off.

[imono]

First picture is the OP's picture of the caseback.
Second picture is from Greekbum posted earlier.
You can see the difference.
At the three corners there should be markings of 18K, a scale "750" and a Ladies' or St. Bernard dog's head. Greekbum's picture shows all the tell tale markings of a genuine solid 18K gold case.

Now the OP's picture shows it differently.
Anything less than Greekbum's photo is consider a suspect.

[austinnh]

Greekbum's photo is of a different model (GMT) so I wasn't sure if the comparison was relevant. Anyway I went and found a good picture of the back of a gold sub of similar vintage and indeed it has the same markings as Greekbum's GMT, which are absent on the watch in question.

It's also easy to see the crown guards are different.

[rangrov]

If it was in my hands i would be able to tell if it was a fake for definate, all i am baseing my judgement on is my previous experience and the photos, this watch looks suspect and without it being checked out by a profesional we will not get to the truth............ wot rolex makes another man can get close too, thats depending how good he is and how much money he whants to make......

[greekbum]

Thanks for posting those pictures.Would you be able to go to your watchmaker and have him take the case back off and photograph the inside of the case back also. Based on the pictures you have shown IMHO the case is aftermarket. The only stamp of some sort your has on the back of the lugs is behind the lug that doesn't have a stamp on originals that I have seen.
In the fs section here I found 1 for sale with pics compare and you be the judge.
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=134888

[Whoop!]

I have looked at the FS photos you suggested Greekbum and I see what you mean. I also notice that the pins that hold the bracelet to the lugs are different.

I have located a jeweler who is probably more qualified to inspect the watch than the one I used first. At that time I'll get interior photos and will post them here for your opinion.
By the way, thanks for your efforts to assist me. Your comments are clear and coherent and that is very much appreciated.

On a side note: My brother-in-law noticed I wasn't wearing the watch and seemed very "OK" (big relief) when I told him it just wasn't my style (he has several others and gave it to me primarily because it was his least favorite). He even suggested I sell it to help with my son's university expenses. I may have underestimated this guy. :)
But he IS a lawyer so who could blame me.

[thesharkfactor]

FAKE CASE ALERT>>



..note, the width of the crown guards (too fat) and the actual width of the flat platform/area the crown rests on inbetween the 2 guards (too short). if your wearing a sub.. take it off look at the back..

obvious fake..

i'll back up rangrov.. ive seen these italian 18k's out there. i saw them in egypt, tried on a 18k YM.. i didn't belive it was solid gold, assum,enmd it was plated and the jeweler was trying to scam tourists.. but, he put it on the scale infront of me. 175grams it weighed.. it was solid gold for sure. the date mag was too weak at 1.5 or less though on that one.

but this watch above.. fake for sure.. and there are also fake 3135's out there too.. but this watch is to old for one of those as they only appeared a few years ago. (recent retro fit of a copy 3125 too?)..


bracelet is a giveaway too.. gaps between the lugs, wrong shape sel on the rear.. poor stamps..

but the rear crown guards are the ultimate giveaway..

EDIT: crown is too large (deep) too..

[SecretSauce]

I second yours above, thesharkfactor. The crown guards are way off - it looks like the crown is squeezed between them with no room to turn. Can't see that the photo would cause that either... reviewed the OPs first photos too... On the real deal, the crown has lots of space on both sides and sits snuggly against the case. BTW, the "underbelly" of the crown looks odd too...

[Lgear080]

does the gold test as real?

if so, then the fake is valuable and the conversation past this point is moot.

it's a frankenstein for sure, and relatively well made if the components are legit.

obviously not authentic rolex, but you wouldn't represent it a such anyways.

sell it for scrap and put the money into something you care about.

great detective work and awesome read though.

[rangrov]

I am glad we are at least getting some kind of response to this watch thread, if it opens just a few of the members eyes to what kind of fakes are out there it was worth the effort. At least the guy who owns it can scrap it and use the money towards a new rolex, lets keep the thread going to the end and a final anser in full. Ive said it from the start i thought it was a fake, now i would like to know if i am right.........

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by wuzzzer

Come on guys, why does everyone think he's talking about the serial #??

Excuse the error.

[Flyjet601]

Did anyone think to try using magnet to see if its actually real gold

Here is a pic from the net of the back of a gold sub.......both the end links and the case dont look the same as the subject in question

thats all i got to say about that

[rangrov]

If it is an italian copy, they were all made out of 18ct gold.....

[JimSnyder]

Older gold 1803 DDs had only 1 hallmark on th back of the case.

[Andad]

You are only allowed 450 'update please'ses before your post count is reduced to zero.

[rangrov]

Ime not woried about that, i would just like to know what the out come of this watch is..........

[rangrov]

It looks like the powers that be have thought this is a fake, just what i thought at the begining, hopefully this thread will stop some poor sod getting duped out of dosh for one of the italian 18k copys.

[rangrov]

Any news on this yet????

[greekbum]

Paul I think these were sold in numbers when gold was low and I am sure that many have these still most if not all know they bought a fake but real gold watch though.I have seen more of these than I can remember and in all the popular models.Its always buyer beware on these.

[austinnh]

I agree it looks like a fake case. Crown guards and lack of correct stamps give it away.

[rangrov]

That was my gut instinct as soon as i saw it, i hope quite a few read this thread because there are unsuspecting buyers out there who could be conned, if this thread just stops a few, we have done a good days work, cheers guys...