Is 4130 overrated?

[Roxas]

I heard from some sources that 4130 is one of the best movements ever made. However, I cannot find any further explanations why it is so great. It has 72 hours power reserve and has fewer components but it seems that is all. Are there any other things special about this movement that make it superior than other integrated column-wheel chronograph movements? Or it is simply a very nice chronograph Rolex movement but not anything exceptional.

Thanks.

[HKtoter]

The 4130 is made by Rolex. Therefore it is best in its class.

[rooted]

I'd argue that the 72 hour power reserve is quite an achievement considering it's an 28,000 bph movement. Many other movements from other respected manufactures that offer a similar power reserve usually lower the bph to 21,000 or below. In addition, the accuracy of the movement itself is pretty spectacular with users reporting -1 +1 over a weeks time. I'm sure there are other specific advantages however I'm not familiar with them in depth, regardless I'd hardly call the 4130 overrated.

[dsio]

I'd call it extra-ordinary to be honest, and the best movement Rolex has ever made. My brother's Daytona's are very bad, one looks like its been through a tumble dryer and the other is almost completely destroyed, the bezel is dented and scratched beyond repair, as is the case, the crystals are chipped, the bracelet on one has enough stretch in it to droop the head at about a 45 degree angle if the clasp is held level.

In spite of that, both are well inside COSC specs (one is '04 one is '06 or '07). Ball bearing winding mechanism, huge power reserve, impressive durability. Not bad at all, imo.

[Casey VP-26]

One thing will always bother me about the 4130 is Quote: WatchTime magazine February 2001. The job of advancing the timer-hand is delegated to an elastic ring, which has been affixed to the spindle of the clutch wheel. (elastic ring-rubber band).

[ArcticMoose]

Originally Posted by Casey VP-26

One thing will always bother me about the 4130 is Quote: WatchTime magazine February 2001. The job of advancing the timer-hand is delegated to an elastic ring, which has been affixed to the spindle of the clutch wheel. (elastic ring-rubber band).

And no date.

[Mrdi]

Yup
And redheads ain't no good neither.

[Jason71]

It is absolutely one of the best in its class, if not the very best.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Casey VP-26

One thing will always bother me about the 4130 is Quote: WatchTime magazine February 2001. The job of advancing the timer-hand is delegated to an elastic ring, which has been affixed to the spindle of the clutch wheel. (elastic ring-rubber band).

Some folks need to work more on their language skills.. Elastic does not mean rubber or plastic; it is not a noun synonomous with those materials....

Elastic refers to deformation and the ability of a material to return to it's original shape.. There are no plastic parts in the 4130 movement..

The 4130 movement was conceived, engineered and designed from the ground up using all the knowledge and technology currently available. This is what makes it special.. It is not just another modification of a decades/centuries old

[mrbill2mrbill2]

I'd take a Zenith El Primero Daytona over the 4130 any day of the week.

Just my opinion.

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by mrbill2mrbill2

I'd take a Zenith El Primero Daytona over the 4130 any day of the week.

Just my opinion.

What facts do you have to back that up with.

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Originally Posted by Art 1

What facts do you have to back that up with.

The fact that Rolex used the El Primero from 1984-2000.

The fact that Zenith could not supply enough El Primero movements to satisfy Rolex's needs - so Zenith worked with Rolex to develop the 4130 - yes this is a fact.

The fact the El Primero was introduced in 1969 and is still in production.

Shall I go on?

I am not bashing Rolex - I love my Sub.

As I said in my original post - just my opinion.

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Additionally, this is my take - not a fact: Rolex de-tuned the 36,000 bph El Primero to 28,800. Rolex states for service reasons. I say BS. How could Rolex explain a Daytona at 36,000 when all other models are 28,800?

[horseco]

Originally Posted by mrbill2mrbill2

I'd take a Zenith El Primero Daytona over the 4130 any day of the week.

Just my opinion.

I currently own a 4130 Daytona, I think my old TT Zenith was more accurate...

[Roxas]

Originally Posted by rooted

I'd argue that the 72 hour power reserve is quite an achievement considering it's an 28,000 bph movement. Many other movements from other respected manufactures that offer a similar power reserve usually lower the bph to 21,000 or below. In addition, the accuracy of the movement itself is pretty spectacular with users reporting -1 +1 over a weeks time. I'm sure there are other specific advantages however I'm not familiar with them in depth, regardless I'd hardly call the 4130 overrated.

Thanks for the information. Actually, I don't think the longer power reserve is much useful except that if we have only one watch but I don't think that is a case for the owners of a Daytona.

[Roxas]

Originally Posted by Casey VP-26

One thing will always bother me about the 4130 is Quote: WatchTime magazine February 2001. The job of advancing the timer-hand is delegated to an elastic ring, which has been affixed to the spindle of the clutch wheel. (elastic ring-rubber band).

What's wrong with that? I don't understand this at all.

[Roxas]

Originally Posted by Tools

Some folks need to work more on their language skills.. Elastic does not mean rubber or plastic; it is not a noun synonomous with those materials....

Elastic refers to deformation and the ability of a material to return to it's original shape.. There are no plastic parts in the 4130 movement..

The 4130 movement was conceived, engineered and designed from the ground up using all the knowledge and technology currently available. This is what makes it special.. It is not just another modification of a decades/centuries old

Thanks for the explanation. Could you please to list the knowledge and technology used to create the 4130? Thanks.

[Roxas]

Originally Posted by mrbill2mrbill2

The fact that Zenith could not supply enough El Primero movements to satisfy Rolex's needs - so Zenith worked with Rolex to develop the 4130 - yes this is a fact.

This is new to me. I thought that Rolex developed the 4130 all by themselves. But according to my knowledge, 4030 and 4130 are radically different. Do you know why Rolex asked Zenith to help?

[Casey VP-26]

Originally Posted by Tools

Some folks need to work more on their language skills.. Elastic does not mean rubber or plastic; it is not a noun synonomous with those materials....

Elastic refers to deformation and the ability of a material to return to it's original shape.. There are no plastic parts in the 4130 movement..

The 4130 movement was conceived, engineered and designed from the ground up using all the knowledge and technology currently available. This is what makes it special.. It is not just another modification of a decades/centuries old

Language Skills: The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, College Edition. Page 424, elastic 6. webbing or material in the form of a band made elastic with strips of rubber.

[Andad]

I'm with Larry.

Elasticity: The physical property of a material that returns to its original shape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young's_modulus

[dsio]

Originally Posted by Casey VP-26

Language Skills: The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, College Edition. Page 424, elastic 6. webbing or material in the form of a band made elastic with strips of rubber.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/elastic

That description was for the noun, the adjective is Eddie's description:

capable of returning to its original length, shape, etc., after being stretched, deformed, compressed, or expanded: an elastic waistband; elastic fiber.


A spring has elastic properties, as does a Xen virtual server environment

That said, my Seamaster chrono runs a 7750 movement that does have bits of plastic in it, and they're neither flimsy nor inaccurate. Metal on metal isn't always the best solution, and plastic doesn't always mean cheap

[Singslinger]

Seems to me WatchTime used an, er , elastic or flexible definition of "elastic'' so it didn't necessarily refer to a rubber band but to an item that had the ability to return to its original shape after being stretched.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Singslinger

Seems to me WatchTime used an, er , elastic or flexible definition of "elastic'' so it didn't necessarily refer to a rubber band but to an item that had the ability to return to its original shape after being stretched.

Have to agree and lets be honest here the 4130 has been around for 10 years without any problems.So its got a good track record while the El-Primo has been around for 40 years both movements are first class chronograph movements just like many others.

[roadie1]

Originally Posted by dsio

I'd call it extra-ordinary to be honest, and the best movement Rolex has ever made. My brother's Daytona's are very bad, one looks like its been through a tumble dryer and the other is almost completely destroyed, the bezel is dented and scratched beyond repair, as is the case, the crystals are chipped, the bracelet on one has enough stretch in it to droop the head at about a 45 degree angle if the clasp is held level.

In spite of that, both are well inside COSC specs (one is '04 one is '06 or '07). Ball bearing winding mechanism, huge power reserve, impressive durability. Not bad at all, imo.

Can you post some pics of his Daytonas with the "character" marks please!
I want to see what mine is going to look like in a few years

[dsio]

Originally Posted by roadie1

Can you post some pics of his Daytonas with the "character" marks please!
I want to see what mine is going to look like in a few years

I'll have to take some pics next time I see him, but I'll give you the cliffnotes:

the '06/'07 one is worse (black dial), he is a restaurateur, so the Daytona is banged against steel cutlery, benches, and kegs daily. Also chain smoking, with the cig being held in the left hand in an upright positon has resulted in the bracelet and watch being completely caked in soot and ash, such that it smells like an ashtray, and in combination with normal bodysweat, it seams to act like grinding paste, causing 20 years of stretch in just 4, even in a solid link bracelet. The inside of the clasp is pitch black with ash and muck, and the clasp is being held in place by the fliplock latch more than the clasp itself. Its never been taken off since it was bought, its only ever cleaning is swims and showers, and its never rinsed afterwards. Seals have never changed and its never been to a watchmaker, PCLs are almost matte, as is the bezel.

I'm actually thinking of writing a proper "Daytona after heavy use" review at some point because its interesting to see how they stand up. The movement though, is still spot on.

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Originally Posted by Roxas

This is new to me. I thought that Rolex developed the 4130 all by themselves. But according to my knowledge, 4030 and 4130 are radically different. Do you know why Rolex asked Zenith to help?

I guess my memeory failed me. Excerpt from
A chat with Thierry Nataf, President & CEO
Zenith International S.A.
by Su JiaXian
© December 2006



SJX: About the rest of the industry, you are a manufacture but you no longer supply to other brands, only to LVMH brands?

TN: Correct. I am supplying to Louis Vuitton, TAG Heuer, and some Dior. It’s true I stopped [supplying] Panerai, to Rolex Daytona, to other prestigious names. I gave them time, in fact I gave them notice. First they are my friends, and you know the promise, it’s like in the car industry, suddenly they don’t have any more of the engine, it’s finished for them, a disaster, and they cannot replace it like that. So I gave 3 years, 4 years, depending. I checked with each of them how long they needed, even helped some of them; one I even helped to develop a new calibre. We had a good relationship, and it’s not that we are not friends anymore. The difficulty I had was very simple, the development of Zenith, the demand of Zenith is stronger than the production, so I could not supply them all. And even with sister companies, today when they ask me, I am very tight on production. I anticipated it was going to be successful to tell the truth, but not like it is now, I thought it was going to take me 10 years, which in an industry of long cycles is normal. In 2005 when I closed my accounts I was already in the dynamic of 2010, so I reviewed my strategic plan. I am very happy as a president, but also as a creator, because when you design you put your heart [in], they are like your sons, your babies, and you put a lot of passion into it, but then you never know will it work or not. Until it works, you don’t know.

From my memory I thought the interview stated Rolex. I was wrong. But who was the "one"?

[Matrim604]

Originally Posted by Casey VP-26

Language Skills: The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, College Edition. Page 424, elastic 6. webbing or material in the form of a band made elastic with strips of rubber.

Used as a noun, yes. As Tools was trying to say, and even as read from your original quote, the word elastic was not used as a noun. Anyways, Tools knows his stuff, and if he says there are no plastic parts I believe him