One person's experience buying Rolex watches (long)...

[Otto]

For what it's worth...

As an American living in Japan, I always look forward to visits home to the US; and I look forward to visiting watch dealers, with whom I can freely converse; but with a few exceptions (usually US stores run by owners who also happen to be expert collectors or watchmakers), I have found the watch hunting experience to be much more satisfying in Japan, even with my poor Japanese language skills.

First, I am not an expert, near-expert, or particularly knowledgeable person about watches in general. By analogy to the world of home computers, I am the true "user" type, not the expert, techie, or programmer type.

Second, I love the so-called "grey market." I find the AD experience to be very boring and limiting in comparison; very much a largely standardized retail experience. I'd rather visit a place like Alex's Watchworks in Portland, Oregon, or Jack Road in Nakano, Tokyo, than almost any Rolex AD (though I have found a few good ADs over the years). In fairness to the US Rolex ADs, however, a lot of the standardization apparently is driven by Rolex.

In Japan, I buy every "high-end" watch magazine I can find. Though I can only read bits and pieces, I can read prices and salient features. Also, Japanese watch magazines are absolutely outstanding sources for details about new and old watches. Extensive comparative photo studies of watches and their features, including their movements, are the rule rather than the exception. The detail of the photo essays allows me to grasp a lot of what is being noted even if my knowledge of written Japanese is very, very weak.

I look at page after page of advertisements and come up with the best, worst and median prices for the model I want, aways caveating my "finds" with serial numbers/dates/new or used, etc. Japanese watch magazines often devote a full third of the magazine to advertiser pages that show row after row of photos of new and used watches along with prices, etc.

I also surf the internet, looking for even more prices in Japan, and comparing the Japanese prices to prices elsewhere in the world.

Of course, I also read English language watch magazines.

For the hunt, I visit the best "grey market" dealers in my area (Tokyo); not usually the ADs, which are generally high overhead department stores that are far too expensive (though the occasional good find can be made). I compare, compare, compare. I walk, walk, and walk some more each day spent on the hunt, and I always bring along a lot of money for meals, snacks, and the trains.

By the way, despite its well-deserved reputation as one of the most expensive cities on Earth, Tokyo is a great place to look for watches. The true love here for high end watches leads to a highly competitive watch market, especially for sports models.

I should note that I do not always go to the the proverbial "low bidder;" especially when it comes to used watches. I always go to reputable dealers and look for quality; and, yes, I even take a loupe along with me sometimes.

If I am buying used, I check for visible flaws, # of links, box, papers, service records, etc. If buying new, I look primarily at price and the papers. At the stores I visit, the watches usually have already been closely examined by the staff and the watchmaker, and they are generally all very knowledgeable and skilled when it comes to watches; however, I pay more attention to detail when looking at used watches since I can't read the small signs next to the watches, where the dealer would note any exceptions for the used watches, and the dealers sometimes assume I have already read the signs; though after a short while, I am fairly certain they realize my knowledge of Japanese is at best base-line functional.

Asking for a discount on a new watch is a pretty futile exercise, the displayed prices are usually already discounted substantially; but discounts are out there if you have the time and energy to find them; especially if you are buying used.

For the newest Basel-introduced models, expect to pay a premium for at least a year, maybe longer, so patience is a good thing to bring along.

You can buy a new SS Daytona, white or black, any day of the week, but expect to pay at least $10-11K USD for the white, and at least $11-12K USD for the black; though prices on all SS Daytonas, new and especially Zenith-based, appear to have been going up rapidly recently.

The good thing to me about Japan is that many if not most of the reputable high-end watch dealers and their sales personnel are truly experts or near-experts; i.e., people who love fine watches and appreciate the history and development of certain brands of watches. The bad thing is that my Japanese is kind of weak, so unless I have a truly bilingual friend along, I can't get too deep into details with the dealers.

The very best thing, however, is that the Japanese dealers are almost without fail courteous, attentive, friendly, knowledgeable, and understanding. Sometimes, it almost seems as if they enjoy showing and talking about a watch as much as selling it.

One of my friends and I have a regular routine. We ride the reserved seating train (we have to save our energy) into Shinjuku, which takes around 45 minutes. We eat at Raj Mahal in Shinjuku and load up on carbs. Fortified, we start our day-long search for the "perfect" deal; or sometimes (i.e., most of the time) it's just a sightseeing day for watches. If we need to start in the Ginza for some reason, or if we just decide to do so, we go to Tenmaru, a tempura restaurant, first. No matter where we start or go, however, a stopover during the day at the Sapporo Lion Beer Hall in the Ginza is a true energy and morale builder. These types of watch hunting days are truly a lot of fun.

If anyone on the forum ever visits Tokyo, and would like to look around for watches, please let me know, and if I am free (I do have a job and family!), I'd love to show you around. With a passport and tourist visa, visitors can get a tax free discount from the 5% Japanese Consumption Tax at some stores.

By the way, I also lived in Singapore for several years in the early 90's and have been back since then. It is also a very exciting place to shop for Rolex watches, though in Singapore I shopped mostly at ADs because they would negotiate and offer discounts and I was looking only for new watches. I bought my SS Daytona new in Singapore while on vacation one year.

Have a great Sunday!

R/Otto

[USMCsilver]

Thanks for the post and the pictures.

That YMII in SS/PLAT is kinda nice. The TT sucks though; or maybe it just hasn't grown on me yet...

I love hearing about how other people live. I'm quite well traveled, and it always amazes me how different things are even in some of the most advanced cultures. Guess that the planet Earth is really the only thing that truely holds us together as one.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing! Great post!

[walds11]

Great read Otto.

The SS Daytona black dial really fetches that much of a premium over the white dial in Japan?

[Otto]

Originally Posted by walds11

Great read Otto.

The SS Daytona black dial really fetches that much of a premium over the white dial in Japan?

Yes. The black dial usually goes for $1-1.5K USD over the white dialed version.

[Wisher]

Otto, greetings from another Rolex junkie in Japan. I couldn't have said it better!!

I ditto everything Otto says, even down to the Raj Mahal in Shinjuku for curry.

I too am so spoiled living here in Tokyo (Shinjuku area) after 12 years this time, I couldn't think of buying a Rolex in the States (where I orginally come from) or anywhere else.

I second the statements about knowledgeable;curteous; for the most part genuinely reputable and trustworthy; and good for bargains, really! because the yen is still low to the dollar, euro, and other currencies at the moment; and even room for bargaining. I've confidence enough in these brick and mortar stores to buy a Rolex here without a guarantee. In fact maybe 20-30% of Rolexes are sold without papers (depending on the store) at the same prices as those with. It's just a part of the trust in doing business here.

In Nakano, by the way, on that same floor with Jack Road is a store called Kamekichi. I've bought 2 there and 1 at Jack Road.

After 20 years on and off in the country, I've polished my Japanese enough to pretty much get around like a native to get the info from the magazines, Internet, and store people. It's all fascinating for watch afficianados.

Tokyo is an amazing place for shopping--and I have to add--not only for watches.

The ADs are pretty boring price-wise, as everything is exactly at MSRP to the tee--no if ands or buts. But I did get my LV at the AD in the Isetan in Shinjuku. MSRP helped on that occasion.

Isetan Department store in Shinjuku had their 11th Int'l Watch Fair a couple of weeks ago, showcasing items from Basil 2007, including the USD $2million Frank Muller, plus JLCs, PPs, Pannies, etc. Great fun talking to all the friendly sales people.

Besides the two stores in Nakano there are at least 8 gray market dealers alone in Shinjuku I can name off the top of my head.

If you are headed this way, you will not be disappointed as far as looking around. Same offer applies here too, you can PM me if you have plans to come to town.

[Lol-x]

Wow guys, I'm on the next flight to Japan (I wish).
I have had some transactions with dealers in Japan and find them extremely honest.
I have heard of the great "Jack Road" and would love to go there one day.
I thank you for the insight into the Japanese Rolex market. I know well the magazines that the Japanese have on Rolex, really amazing.
I find the integrity of the Japanese very reassuring. The competitive nature of the market sounds like it makes for a buyers market. I like that

[Andad]

Hi Otto & Ron,

Thanks for the Rolex Japan info.

We have one AD in Adelaide - not very exciting.

[Gaijin]

I lived in Osaka for over 4 years. I'd love to hook up with anybody in Japan next time I am there for some Rolex shopping!

[BiG JeEzY]

Japan is definitely one of the best places in the world for watch shopping. If I ever come to Japan, Ill be sure to contact you Otto. Thank you very much and I really appreciate that you are willing to show us around for the best deals Japan has to offer!

Living there must be awesome too! I dream sometimes about staying in a place like Tokyo where it is very fast paced but at the same time, there are so many things you can do and see there. Its like a place of just everything.

Cheers Otto! Your post was a great read and the pictures were fantastic. I took 4 years of Japanese myself and can translate some parts.