The Fork In The Road...Long

[Beaumont Miller II]

Clay's lucky and most fortunate purchase of his new 16600 and the interesting threads it has led to has got me thinking about this fork in the road that at some point many of us will come upon. For the most part we all share the same passion for vintage Rolex watches or we wouldn't on the same path to begin with. However there will be times when we will have to choose the path to the left or to the right.

Please allow me to illustrate:

You are searching for a birth year vintage Rolex watch from 1968. A purchase that you have been considering for a while and have set aside the allotted money throughout the year for the purchase. Finally you have nailed it down to two choices...the metaphorical fork in the road.

Choice Number 1: You talk to the gentleman on the phone off and on for a week getting to know him better because he isn't a dealer and you want to make sure you can trust him. During your conversations with him, he lets you know that he is very meticulous and careful with everything he purchases. He takes care of his watches just like his Mercedes Benz...he follows the all the routine scheduled maintenance on both. In fact, he took his watch to the Rolex AD for routine service every two years. He has every single invoice from the AD. He followed their every suggestion/request at every service...because after all they are the experts. He starts reading from the invoice and tells you that at different times the crown, hands, and bezel/insert have been replaced along with the bracelet because it was stretched out, and he likes everything to look new. The dial is original. Each time they sent it back to him he was so pleased because they polished it like new just like they day he bought it. He is firm on his price because after all according to him it looks "brand new" and is keeping perfect time. The watch comes with box and papers.

Choice Number 2: You talk to the gentleman on the phone off and on for a week to make sure you can trust him. During your conversations with him, he tells you that he bought the watch when he graduated from college as a present to himself. He tells you, I'm the kind of guy that never throws anything out...I save everything. He wore it every day for 20 years, and it kept good enough time for him...so he figured why get it serviced...its a Rolex they are made to run forever...right? One day he was on vacation and the bracelet broke. Rather than fix his broken watch, he decided to treat himself to another new one. When he got home he took the watch with the broken band and put it in an old sock in his drawer and forgot about it until recently when he found it. He says it winds ok but is keeping terrible time. He laughs as he tells you, man that old watch is dirty. He is firm on price because as he says, "I really don't need the money". The watch comes with box and papers.

The price for both watches is the same and is at the limit of your budget for the purchase.

It would be interesting to hear which one of these watches would be more appealing to some of you and why. For me I can tell you that this vintage Rolex passion is somewhat of a journey and I have come to this metaphoric fork many times, with the exception of the original owner part. The choice I made back then would not be the same as it would be now. A wise friend and counsel of mine told me that over time a collection kind of evolves and can grow in different directions...I suspect that he may have been talking about the different paths we choose.

[cruvon]

That's a simple decision;), I would go with choice 2 for the sake of originality though I can see the point of view in choice 1 from someone desiring a watch that has been well cared for over the years, if only the hands were kept original and the bezel insert wasn't a service replacement, at the right price, I might have given it a thought!

[Frogman4me]

Great questions John, for me I go with choice number 2 every time.

[kyle L]

Definitely choice #2, I would love to have that experience!

[Beaumont Miller II]

San, David, and Kyle. I thought you guys would feel that way. To be fair, I have edited the original thread to read that the cost for both watches is at the limit of the amount budgeted for the watch purchase.

[Clay]

How about a 3rd choice.....

If it were me I think I would keep looking....There has to be a watch out there that is the best of both worlds.......A watch that someone has taken care of, had serviced, ect., but didn't have the original parts changed or the watch polished to death...

I agree 100% that interests as well as tastes change over time and a collection will evolve accordingly.....

After having owned just about every watch (at one time or another) that I've wanted (and could afford...LOL) I have become VERY fussy....
I will no longer compromise on any watch purchase!!!
If it isn't EXACTLY what I want, for a price I am comfortable with, I will walk away.....In fact I did that this very evening...

There is always another watch out there....

I have learned that if a watch isn't 100% what I am "really" looking for, it eventually gets sold.....

So unless you are 100% sure that one of these watches is EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR...Better to save the money until you can find and afford EXACTLY what it is you want....

Just my two cents...I hope it helps a little...

[Andad]

I'd pass on both as neither seem to be in good condition.
As soon as you buy one of these the same model will be seen for sale at the same price and in perfect condition.

[onkyo]

I would prefer choice #2..... and bring it back to life the way I wanted.

[teeva3333]

agree with Clay. Assuming one of these is exactly what u want, then i go with 2.

[whiskyguy]

Choice #2

Every time!

[conrail]

It was long but an easy read :) I'd go with #2 - love original so long as it has visual appeal too and isn't truly a "dirty old watch."

The innards can be cleaned out and have it running like new - absolute worst case throw in a new movement. The dial, bezel, hands, etc.. are the character and essence of the watch and you've completely lost that with choice #1.

[lhanddds]

I would choose your #2, but if Clay's 3 was an option, I would go with that.

[YetiBiker]

Great question to posit John. I think that collectors of vintage items, be its cars, paintings, tea pots, comic books etc., etc. will always value originality. There is a nostalgic feeling that one gets from aquiring something that is 30-50+ years old in its original condition, unmolested and untouched. How rare is that something survives with all its original parts and can be brought back to function as it did the day it left the factory? How rare is to find something that has survived the ravages of time intact?

Two watches in my collection give me that feeling. One I got from the original owner and, not only know the watch's history, but the owner as well. The other watch has military history and is also "untouched". Both are valued far above the watches that I bought from dealers or friends. Both have survived 60+ years and the stories they could tell!

So, for me, I will always cherish a watch with all its original parts and that has signs of having "lived".

Great post my friend

[Michael M.]

Hi John- I'd go with choice # 2 every time as long as the watch is in reasonably good condition (no huge dings, lume falling off, etc.)

[Beaumont Miller II]

Originally Posted by onkyo

I would prefer choice #2..... and bring it back to life the way I wanted.

Pav I agree with you, and that is where my passion as of late has been focused.

Originally Posted by conrail

It was long but an easy read :) I'd go with #2 - love original so long as it has visual appeal too and isn't truly a "dirty old watch."

The innards can be cleaned out and have it running like new - absolute worst case throw in a new movement. The dial, bezel, hands, etc.. are the character and essence of the watch and you've completely lost that with choice #1.

Exactly and this is why I edited the original thread slightly to get an idea of how much we value originality. At the point that you are willing to go a little beyond your budget to get an original watch that only probably needs a full service, that gives an idea of the desirability of the second watch over the first.

Originally Posted by YetiBiker

Great question to posit John. I think that collectors of vintage items, be its cars, paintings, tea pots, comic books etc., etc. will always value originality. There is a nostalgic feeling that one gets from aquiring something that is 30-50+ years old in its original condition, unmolested and untouched. How rare is that something survives with all its original parts and can be brought back to function as it did the day it left the factory? How rare is to find something that has survived the ravages of time intact?


Two watches in my collection give me that feeling. One I got from the original owner and, not only know the watch's history, but the owner as well. The other watch has military history and is also "untouched". Both are valued far above the watches that I bought from dealers or friends. Both have survived 60+ years and the stories they could tell!

So, for me, I will always cherish a watch with all its original parts and that has signs of having "lived".

Great post my friend

Vijay I agree...especially with tea pots. Ha Ha. The key for me is unmolested like you said. An "honest" watch. I really like that term and when I see it used to describe a watch it tells me alot more than the terms NOS and Unpolished. The fact that people are choosing the second watch reassures me that our hobby is healthy.

Originally Posted by Michael M.

Hi John- I'd go with choice # 2 every time as long as the watch is in reasonably good condition (no huge dings, lume falling off, etc.)

Michael I agree and that is probably what Clay was referring to. It has to be what you are looking for. I bought a daily wearer with flaking lume. Bad decision and luckily didn't get hurt when I sold it.

[dddrees]

I agree with Clay. Be patient and look for another better watch.

[azguy]

I'd go with #1, I like my watches to be clean, presentable, look new and in good running order, original hands and dial mean nothing to me-

[pdoukas]

Originally Posted by Clay

How about a 3rd choice.....

If it were me I think I would keep looking....There has to be a watch out there that is the best of both worlds.......A watch that someone has taken care of, had serviced, ect., but didn't have the original parts changed or the watch polished to death...

I agree 100% that interests as well as tastes change over time and a collection will evolve accordingly.....

After having owned just about every watch (at one time or another) that I've wanted (and could afford...LOL) I have become VERY fussy....
I will no longer compromise on any watch purchase!!!
If it isn't EXACTLY what I want, for a price I am comfortable with, I will walk away.....In fact I did that this very evening...

There is always another watch out there....

I have learned that if a watch isn't 100% what I am "really" looking for, it eventually gets sold.....

So unless you are 100% sure that one of these watches is EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR...Better to save the money until you can find and afford EXACTLY what it is you want....

Just my two cents...I hope it helps a little...

What Clay said

[RC2]

Number 2. More original parts Just needs a service. Rich

[Jagatai]

Interesting I'd go for No. 2.

[hatidua]

#2 if it were my choice.

I bought a Rolex 5513, in 1981, brand new. Over the years, I put a fair number of scratches on it....well, actually a whole lot of scratches! Around about 1996 or so, I sent it in to Rolex/NY for service. Imagine my shock when the bill for service exceeded that which I had paid for the watch brand new.

It came back from service looking brand new and for many years I didn't give it a second thought. As I've had some time to think about it now, I wish I'd never let them buff all those scratches off, each one represented memories and I could recount a great many stories behind the scratches.

Live & learn, -I'll never let another one of my watches get buffed out during service, or have any cosmetic parts changed.

[HL65]

Option 2 for me as well. Great post John....

[springer]

I guess I just went with choice number 2 on a 1675 that I just purchased. For those that haven't seen it elsewhere, check below. Never serviced or polished since circa 1970. And, it's keeping incredible time - running around 3 seconds off a day for the past four days.

[Tcaviglioli]

Originally Posted by Clay

How about a 3rd choice.....

If it were me I think I would keep looking....There has to be a watch out there that is the best of both worlds.......A watch that someone has taken care of, had serviced, ect., but didn't have the original parts changed or the watch polished to death...

I agree 100% that interests as well as tastes change over time and a collection will evolve accordingly.....

After having owned just about every watch (at one time or another) that I've wanted (and could afford...LOL) I have become VERY fussy....
I will no longer compromise on any watch purchase!!!
If it isn't EXACTLY what I want, for a price I am comfortable with, I will walk away.....In fact I did that this very evening...

There is always another watch out there....

I have learned that if a watch isn't 100% what I am "really" looking for, it eventually gets sold.....

So unless you are 100% sure that one of these watches is EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR...Better to save the money until you can find and afford EXACTLY what it is you want....

Just my two cents...I hope it helps a little...

Very true, I have had exactly the same behavior/trend so better wait for the best one for you, whatever it is. Otherwise, you will end up selling a watch at a loss or gain depending on the price you paid.

I tend to focus less on the price, but a lot more on the watch itself, even from a financial point of view I think you'll be better off in the long run ..

[Yeager]

Cliff Notes?

[Beaumont Miller II]

Originally Posted by springer

I guess I just went with choice number 2 on a 1675 that I just purchased. For those that haven't seen it elsewhere, check below. Never serviced or polished since circa 1970. And, it's keeping incredible time - running around 3 seconds off a day for the past four days.

John I am loving that watch. I am glad that for you the two choices were not just hypothetical and that you actually found the right one. Well done my friend!

[Beaumont Miller II]

Originally Posted by Yeager

Cliff Notes?

Too funny...I got the crud with a sore throat, and that got me laughing.

[belk7]

This is a terrific thread. Given the choices, #2 is typically the path that I gravitate towards. I'm not sure I would have answered this question the same way a few years ago. However, when it comes to the vintage pieces that appeal to me, I seem to like them to visibly display their own long and useful journey.

[AWS]

A few years ago, when I rekindled my interest and love of watches, I would have been in the #1 camp. I take care of my things and having everything in top condition would be important to me.

Over the past year, my growing interest and knowledge of vintage watches has evolved. I still enjoy my modern pieces but find myself gravitating to the vintage pieces more and more.

Along the way, I have learned with the helpful guidance of others, to appreciate some of the imperfections that go with vintage. I like a watch in as original condition as possible, with a near perfect dial and a case with wear consistant for its age.

I now fall into the #2 camp. I want to be the one to restore it the way that I want.

[bluemartinifan]

John, I prefer option #3 - I wait for you to tire of one of your lesser prized children (but still stunning, all original and hard to find) - and pounce on it