Why blur serial numbers in photos?

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by dalip

That's protection from you Mon !! :)

[HL65]

Pretty much every top seller I know does this when selling a watch. So they take extra precaution--who cares? If you think it is unnecessary - good for you. I am sure you have much experience selling many watches so everyone will perhaps listen to you....or maybe not.

[MoBe]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Why are you so against precaution?

My wife has never been attacked but she carries a taser in her purse.

I believe that the precaution is to prevent an imaginary danger,in this case,one that is,I believe,rooted in an internet myth.If serial number theft were such a danger then there would have to be reports of people being scammed out of their Rolexes by thieves using this method all over the world.I have yet to see or read such a report.Before coming to this forum I had never even heard of the suggestion of such a thing.

It would appear that not even the dumbest of criminals has yet concieved of the possibility of serial number theft as a viable method of theft and usually the thieves are ahead of the curve when it comes to new and innovative methods of income generation.If the thieves can`t figure out how to pull it off then who else is going to?It seems that many people believe it`s possible but no one can explain how or that it has ever been done.It sure sounds like a myth if you ask me,sort of like the one about crossing your eyes,you don`t want them to get stuck like that now,do you?

If someone wants to obscure their serial number for personal reasons I`m not bothered one way or another but don`t make up some implausible story of possible theft just because that`s the first thing that comes to mind,or worse yet because you read it on the internet.

I hope your wife never has to use her Taser.

[DiamondJack]

Originally Posted by MoBe

The notion that a serial number alone would be enough to make a claim of ownership against the owner of record is absurd in the extreme.Anyone that could consider this scenario as a real possibilty must have an IQ equal to their shoesize.This argument makes as much sense as being able to claim legal ownership of a motor vehicle because you can read the VIN through the windshield of a car.

Where did this idea come from,some 12 year old that just got his first computer?

Unless you bought your watch new and retained the receipt, what do you actually have to show you ever owned it if it was stolen from you? The serial number if you thought to write it down but, more often than not, usually photos of the watch. Indeed, for jewellery, photos is probably all people will have to evidence ownership should they ever need to make an insurance claim.

Watches are one of the few heavily traded items you may own. For example, I have quite a few high value pieces which I bought pre-owned (some vintage pieces probably owned by up to 10 or more people in the past). Many of these were bought for cash and I have no other proof of ownership other than the fact I have documented the serial number and have photos of the watch.

But these are still included on my home insurance policy as itemised high value objects.

So are you saying, I cannot claim for these should I be burgled? Of course I can..... they are itemised valuables on my insurance policy and I will be able to provide photo evidence of the watches in question when I make my stolen report.

So where is this different from someone who joins a forum like TRF, notes down the watch model, serial number if shown..... returns over a few weeks and months and copies photos of your watch on your wrist to his hard drive and gets them printed for their insurance file. Even better, if you provide photos of wrist shots on holiday for a few more convincing shots.

The fraudster then adds the said watch to their insurance policy and maybe a year or so later makes a claim, usually abroad, usually on a holiday insurance policy and usually on a beach or by the hotel pool to get a nice Police report without having to have had their home burgled. The fact they can also evidence the watch was already listed as an itemised valuable on their home insurance policy is usually all they need.....

In most cases we are probably looking at watches over 5 years old so there is a good excuse for not having kept boxes or receipts or remembering who you actually bought it from.... One of my watches came from an antique market in Rome for cash...... How would I possibly prove I owned that watch other than retaining the serial number and having photos in my insurance file. Because of this I now take photos of the watch with something personal or a picture with the watch held up to my face but that isn't actually needed for an insurance claim.

But if you want to splash your watches serial number all over the internet, be my guest....... Oh and by the way..... my IQ is a little bit higher than my shoe size

[Bangel]

Originally Posted by DiamondJack

Unless you bought your watch new and retained the receipt, what do you actually have to show you ever owned it if it was stolen from you? The serial number if you thought to write it down but, more often than not, usually photos of the watch. Indeed, for jewellery, photos is probably all people will have to evidence ownership should they ever need to make an insurance claim.

Watches are one of the few heavily traded items you may own. For example, I have quite a few high value pieces which I bought pre-owned (some vintage pieces probably owned by up to 10 or more people in the past). Many of these were bought for cash and I have no other proof of ownership other than the fact I have documented the serial number and have photos of the watch.

But these are still included on my home insurance policy as itemised high value objects.

So are you saying, I cannot claim for these should I be burgled? Of course I can..... they are itemised valuables on my insurance policy and I will be able to provide photo evidence of the watches in question when I make my stolen report.

So where is this different from someone who joins a forum like TRF, notes down the watch model, serial number if shown..... returns over a few weeks and months and copies photos of your watch on your wrist to his hard drive and gets them printed for their insurance file. Even better, if you provide photos of wrist shots on holiday for a few more convincing shots.

The fraudster then adds the said watch to their insurance policy and maybe a year or so later makes a claim, usually abroad, usually on a holiday insurance policy and usually on a beach or by the hotel pool to get a nice Police report without having to have had their home burgled. The fact they can also evidence the watch was already listed as an itemised valuable on their home insurance policy is usually all they need.....

In most cases we are probably looking at watches over 5 years old so there is a good excuse for not having kept boxes or receipts or remembering who you actually bought it from.... One of my watches came from an antique market in Rome for cash...... How would I possibly prove I owned that watch other than retaining the serial number and having photos in my insurance file. Because of this I now take photos of the watch with something personal or a picture with the watch held up to my face but that isn't actually needed for an insurance claim.

But if you want to splash your watches serial number all over the internet, be my guest....... Oh and by the way..... my IQ is a little bit higher than my shoe size

I thought it was prudent before, but I KNOW it's prudent now. Great post.

[MoBe]

Originally Posted by DiamondJack

Unless you bought your watch new and retained the receipt, what do you actually have to show you ever owned it if it was stolen from you? The serial number if you thought to write it down but, more often than not, usually photos of the watch. Indeed, for jewellery, photos is probably all people will have to evidence ownership should they ever need to make an insurance claim.

Watches are one of the few heavily traded items you may own. For example, I have quite a few high value pieces which I bought pre-owned (some vintage pieces probably owned by up to 10 or more people in the past). Many of these were bought for cash and I have no other proof of ownership other than the fact I have documented the serial number and have photos of the watch.

But these are still included on my home insurance policy as itemised high value objects.

So are you saying, I cannot claim for these should I be burgled? Of course I can..... they are itemised valuables on my insurance policy and I will be able to provide photo evidence of the watches in question when I make my stolen report.

So where is this different from someone who joins a forum like TRF, notes down the watch model, serial number if shown..... returns over a few weeks and months and copies photos of your watch on your wrist to his hard drive and gets them printed for their insurance file. Even better, if you provide photos of wrist shots on holiday for a few more convincing shots.

The fraudster then adds the said watch to their insurance policy and maybe a year or so later makes a claim, usually abroad, usually on a holiday insurance policy and usually on a beach or by the hotel pool to get a nice Police report without having to have had their home burgled. The fact they can also evidence the watch was already listed as an itemised valuable on their home insurance policy is usually all they need.....

In most cases we are probably looking at watches over 5 years old so there is a good excuse for not having kept boxes or receipts or remembering who you actually bought it from.... One of my watches came from an antique market in Rome for cash...... How would I possibly prove I owned that watch other than retaining the serial number and having photos in my insurance file. Because of this I now take photos of the watch with something personal or a picture with the watch held up to my face but that isn't actually needed for an insurance claim.

But if you want to splash your watches serial number all over the internet, be my guest....... Oh and by the way..... my IQ is a little bit higher than my shoe size

A very inventive scenario indeed and indicative of a certain IQ,I might add,but has anything like it happenned to you or anyone you know?

The amount of effort you describe to perpetrate such a fraud is enormous and beyond reason for such a relatively small return.

[johnbeth]

Give it a break Mobe, your continual mocking is getting to annoying stage.

If you have nothing nice to say, please refrain from getting involved.

[DiamondJack]

Originally Posted by MoBe

A very inventive scenario indeed and indicative of a certain IQ,I might add,but has anything like it happenned to you or anyone you know?

The amount of effort you describe to perpetrate such a fraud is enormous and beyond reason for such a relatively small return.

I am certainly aware of this happening and have a friend who works for an insurance company that has stories that will just amaze you...... I think you need to think a little bigger in terms of scale. Fraud is a multi million dollar industry and this will be done on a pretty large scale operation with willing participants who get paid a percentage of the claim to put the watch on their home insurance policy and make the claim for a syndicated approach.

Most of us will never get our watch stolen and therefore will never make a claim ourselves so you will never know if this has happened to us. RSC Bexley in the UK used to run a stolen Rolex register and I have checked a couple of watches in the past but not sure if this service is still available and think it was only ever a UK register.

But people are very inventive when it comes to "free money". One story this friend told me was a guy who had a sister working for a hospital in Greece. When found out, he had apparently made annual claims for 9 appendix operations on different holiday insurance policies..... Another guy claimed for new carpets throughout his 5 bedroom house because "he was looking for his wife whilst carrying a leaking car battery......."

[dddrees]

Actually I think MoBe has been a pretty good antagonist here.

Although I don't agree with him, he has made people more fully explain why they believe it is worth taking precautions.

Heated discusion possibly, but I think we've all got a little more information because of it.

[johnbeth]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Actually I think MoBe has been a pretty good antagonist here.

Although I don't agree with him, he has made people more fully explain why they believe it is worth taking precautions.

Heated discusion possibly, but I think we've all got a little more information because of it.

Dan I agree, good discussion is healthy, however, insulting other peoples opinions like Mobe has and belittle them referring to IQs, well thats a discussion not worth having as credibility is lost.

Just a few thoughts anyway from what I have seen in this thread.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by johnbeth

Dan I agree, good discussion is healthy, however, insulting other peoples opinions like Mobe has and belittle them referring to IQs, well thats a discussion not worth having as credibility is lost.

Just a few thoughts anyway from what I have seen in this thread.

John, I don't disagree with you.

[johnbeth]

Originally Posted by dddrees

John, I don't disagree with you.

I know mate. I know!

[MoBe]

Originally Posted by johnbeth

Dan I agree, good discussion is healthy, however, insulting other peoples opinions like Mobe has and belittle them referring to IQs, well thats a discussion not worth having as credibility is lost.

Just a few thoughts anyway from what I have seen in this thread.

If I had insulted someone by name I`m sure a moderator would have cut me off by now.

So far I see no credible proof that a picture of my serial number on the internet puts me at risk of losing my watch to a fraudster.If a fraudster wants to include a Rolex as part of a scam a genuine serial number is not neccessary,any number in the appropriate range will do,all the lists are on the internet.All that`s needed is for the scam artist to choose a model and it`s serial number and write it on a claim.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by MoBe

If I had insulted someone by name I`m sure a moderator would have cut me off by now.

So far I see no credible proof that a picture of my serial number on the internet puts me at risk of losing my watch to a fraudster.

It's still not too late.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by MoBe

If I had insulted someone by name I`m sure a moderator would have cut me off by now.

So far I see no credible proof that a picture of my serial number on the internet puts me at risk of losing my watch to a fraudster.If a fraudster wants to include a Rolex as part of a scam a genuine serial number is not neccessary,any number in the appropriate range will do,all the lists are on the internet.All that`s needed is for the scam artist to choose a model and it`s serial number and write it on a claim.

You plaster your serial numbers all over the internet, sweety pie.

I'm not going to and you'll not persuade me otherwise.

Anyone who thinks I'm a woosie or being paranoid can pucker my posterior.

[DiamondJack]

Originally Posted by MoBe

If I had insulted someone by name I`m sure a moderator would have cut me off by now.

So far I see no credible proof that a picture of my serial number on the internet puts me at risk of losing my watch to a fraudster.If a fraudster wants to include a Rolex as part of a scam a genuine serial number is not neccessary,any number in the appropriate range will do,all the lists are on the internet.All that`s needed is for the scam artist to choose a model and it`s serial number and write it on a claim.

I really enjoy this sort of discussion so no issue from me.....

In this respect, I dont think anyone has said you are necessarily at risk of losing your watch..... just that if you provide a fraudster with the amunition to make such an insurance claim on your watch, it could have repercussions down the line as and when you ask Rolex to service your watch or you try to sell it. Now, hopefully, if this ever happened, you could probably prove you own the watch but it's just aggravation and, for the life of me, I can't see why you would want to have that potential hassle when it can so easily be avoided in the first place by simply blurring some of the serial numbers.

The attached photo is what you used to be able to get back from Rolex UK Bexley. Now if you were having your watch serviced and it had been reported stolen, who do you think Rolex would initially think was the rightful owner....? You or the person who made an insurance claim for the watch some years earlier.....? Who do you think Rolex would try to return the watch to.....? You or the insurance company who had registered the loss and paid out the claim? When the insurance company can't find the fraudster to reunite them with their watch, do you think it just comes back to you????? The insurance company will have paid out under the insurance claim and as far as Rolex are concerned, then become the rightful owner unless you can prove otherwise....

You will just receive a letter from Rolex saying the watch has been reported lost or stolen and they are dealing with it accordingly. New watches bought by you from a Rolex AD should hopefully not be an issue since Rolex should have you as the registered owner (assuming a register is kept)..... but how many of us have bought pre-owned.....

Just a sensible thing to do..... but prove me wrong and post pics of all your serial numbers with a few wrist shots if you are that confident.....

[dshippy]

Thanks for this thread. I agree that obscuring serial numbers is a hassle 99.8% of the time, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

[mike]

This has run it's course.