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Downing · 19 September 2007, 02:48 AM

A thread on someone's "vintage" watch from 1978 got me to thinking.

Is there a generally accepted definition of vintage when it comes to watches?

A quick check of the dictionary lists the following definitions:

1. A group or collection of people or things sharing certain characteristics.
2. A year or period of origin: a car of 1942 vintage.
3. Length of existence; age.

I'm sure there's no bright line in terms of date but is there a generally accepted cutoff? In other words, are watches from the 1970s and earlier generally considered to be vintage but watches from the 1980s onward not (yet)?

Tools · 19 September 2007, 03:18 AM

Vintage...it's all how you look at it.. vintage means little more than old, but how old is old ?

Vintage wine could be last years reserve crop..

I'm going to say that a vintage watch would be one that was superceded by a later model or upgrade, so:

A vintage 14060 Sub would be one before the 14060M, however, a vintage 14060M could be one prior to the latest COSC dial..

A vintage GMT could be any that was prior to the latest 116710, so you can buy a "vintage" GMT right now, BNIB at an AD...

Almost anything out of production would be vintage.. but just because it is old, say a 15 year old 16610, would not; it would just be older..

leopardprey · 19 September 2007, 03:23 AM

Well, for Rolex USA, it is anything before a Saphire Cyrstal.

bwalkerVintage · 19 September 2007, 03:24 AM

I personally think that it would be something ~20-25 years old (or older). Thats the way it works for automobiles - classics could be considered to be 25 years or older. Just my .02

mikey · 19 September 2007, 03:29 AM

20+ years makes it a classic. I drive a classic and wear a classic Rolex.

BLSampson · 19 September 2007, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey

20+ years makes it a classic. I drive a classic and wear a classic Rolex.

And those of us over twenty are there by classics and/or vintage

Downing · 19 September 2007, 03:49 AM

To some degree, I'm a little bummed about this because I was 21 years old and in college in 1978 so it's a little hard to accept that anything from that era could be considered vintage.

As much as I hate growing old, it does beat the alternative.

S2000 Driver · 19 September 2007, 05:39 AM

At least as far as automobiles are concerned, my state defines "antique" as at least 25 years old:

State of Connecticut Department of Motor Vehicles Early American Antique Plates

Wonder what that makes me?

bwalkerVintage · 19 September 2007, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S2000 Driver

At least as far as automobiles are concerned, my state defines "antique" as at least 25 years old:

State of Connecticut Department of Motor Vehicles Early American Antique Plates

Wonder what that makes me?

Yes, I also heard of the 25 year rule.

mike · 19 September 2007, 06:38 AM

It really depends on the circle one moves it IMO.
Most "vintage" collectors feel to garner the term a watch needs to be 25 years or older. Some view true vintage pieces as possessing certain characteristics, specifically a plastic crystal, matt dial, gilt dial, a movement no longer made, or a reference no longer made.
Over time what constitutes vintage will probably change as new collectors enter the vintage arena. I can see gloss tritium dials falling into this as time goes on.
Noteworthy: vintage and desirability are two different things. Certainly there are any number of references that fall into a most everyone's definition of vintage, but lack desirability to the collector.
Desirability is much harder to define, but generally has that "something" that sets the watch apart. As new collectors enter and views change that "something" can change.
I think the real key is to decide what has legs and what is the "flavor of the month" LOL!

maverick · 19 September 2007, 08:32 AM

Even though it has a sapphire crystal. =) maverick

mike · 19 September 2007, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverick

Even though it has a sapphire crystal. =) maverick

Absolutely Mav!

Wonderfull example! Love the 16800.

maverick · 19 September 2007, 12:03 PM

I have always admired your nice white one, Mike. =) maverick

Destroy · 19 September 2007, 12:25 PM

vintage > 25 yrs
antique > 100 yrs

astcell · 19 September 2007, 11:28 PM

It's vintage if JJ can remember the day it came out and we can't.

Wisher · 20 September 2007, 12:02 AM

For what it is worth, below is my "antique" watch based on the market definition here. The certificate was stamped in 1996 and it has a saphire crystal.

The key is this: it is a Tudor Sub that is a very close look alike to the Rolex Sub but because Tudor stopped making Rolex look alikes my watch is considered to be an antique already since no new ones will ever appear (or that is the assumption). One interpretation of "vintage" then, can be based on whether a watch is or is not still in production.

"Antique" or "vintage" is different from the market definition of "used", which refers to watches such as a Black Dial/Face Sub 16610 that may be older than mine but because that model is still in production, it is being sold as "used", well, at least here.

Calling my Tudor an antique already, though, has created much greater demand for these and caused the price to escalate. These definitions, while sometimes arbitrary depending on whose definition you use, can work in our favor.

bwalkerVintage · 20 September 2007, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisher

For what it is worth, below is my "antique" watch based on the market definition here. The certificate was stamped in 1996 and it has a saphire crystal.

The key is this: it is a Tudor Sub that is a very close look alike to the Rolex Sub but because Tudor stopped making Rolex look alikes my watch is considered to be an antique already since no new ones will ever appear (or that is the assumption). One interpretation of "vintage" then, can be based on whether a watch is or is not still in production.

"Antique" or "vintage" is different from the market definition of "used", which refers to watches such as a Black Dial/Face Sub 16610 that may be older than mine but because that model is still in production, it is being sold as "used", well, at least here.

Calling my Tudor an antique already, though, has created much greater demand for these and caused the price to escalate. These definitions, while sometimes arbitrary depending on whose definition you use, can work in our favor.

I personally would not call something that is 11 years old antique or vintage - probably just "older". In reality, calling something as such is just a marketing ploy to drive up the price.

jac67 · 20 September 2007, 10:39 AM

Agree with Chad.

The general opinion amoungst Rolex collectors is anything with acrylic crystal, however there are exceptions to the general rule.

There are the "transitional" watches with sapphire crystals BUT with tritium matt dials as Maverick and Mike above which are considered vintage.

Others say, "If Rolex doesn't service it, then it's vintage".

John.

Blown Wide Open · 20 September 2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leopardprey

Well, for Rolex USA, it is anything before a Saphire Cyrstal.

Bingo...

PAtrick

19 September 2007, 02:48 AM	#1
Downing "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Real Name: Downing Location: Portland, Oregon Watch: SD ExpII GO Nav ND Posts: 1,640	At what point is a watch considered "vintage"? A thread on someone's "vintage" watch from 1978 got me to thinking. Is there a generally accepted definition of vintage when it comes to watches? A quick check of the dictionary lists the following definitions: 1. A group or collection of people or things sharing certain characteristics. 2. A year or period of origin: a car of 1942 vintage. 3. Length of existence; age. I'm sure there's no bright line in terms of date but is there a generally accepted cutoff? In other words, are watches from the 1970s and earlier generally considered to be vintage but watches from the 1980s onward not (yet)? __________________ One if by land, one if by sea, one if by air and one uh, just to tell time. Rolex Explorer II White Rolex Sea-Dweller Glashütte Original Navigator Panerai 183 G Black Seal

19 September 2007, 03:49 AM	#7
Downing "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Real Name: Downing Location: Portland, Oregon Watch: SD ExpII GO Nav ND Posts: 1,640	To some degree, I'm a little bummed about this because I was 21 years old and in college in 1978 so it's a little hard to accept that anything from that era could be considered vintage. As much as I hate growing old, it does beat the alternative. __________________ One if by land, one if by sea, one if by air and one uh, just to tell time. Rolex Explorer II White Rolex Sea-Dweller Glashütte Original Navigator Panerai 183 G Black Seal

19 September 2007, 05:39 AM	#8
S2000 Driver "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: CT Watch: Submariner Datum ß Posts: 858	At least as far as automobiles are concerned, my state defines "antique" as at least 25 years old: State of Connecticut Department of Motor Vehicles Early American Antique Plates Wonder what that makes me? __________________

19 September 2007, 08:32 AM	#11
maverick Banned Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: maverick Location: Prescott Watch: Rolex Posts: 1,180	IMHO this is vintage >> Even though it has a sapphire crystal. =) maverick

20 September 2007, 12:02 AM	#16
Wisher "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Real Name: Ron Location: Japan Watch: All of them Posts: 304	Depends on whose definition you want to use! For what it is worth, below is my "antique" watch based on the market definition here. The certificate was stamped in 1996 and it has a saphire crystal. The key is this: it is a Tudor Sub that is a very close look alike to the Rolex Sub but because Tudor stopped making Rolex look alikes my watch is considered to be an antique already since no new ones will ever appear (or that is the assumption). One interpretation of "vintage" then, can be based on whether a watch is or is not still in production. "Antique" or "vintage" is different from the market definition of "used", which refers to watches such as a Black Dial/Face Sub 16610 that may be older than mine but because that model is still in production, it is being sold as "used", well, at least here. Calling my Tudor an antique already, though, has created much greater demand for these and caused the price to escalate. These definitions, while sometimes arbitrary depending on whose definition you use, can work in our favor. Attached Images

19 September 2007, 03:18 AM	#2
Tools TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Larry Location: Mojave Desert Watch: GMT's Posts: 43,515	Vintage...it's all how you look at it.. vintage means little more than old, but how old is old ? Vintage wine could be last years reserve crop.. I'm going to say that a vintage watch would be one that was superceded by a later model or upgrade, so: A vintage 14060 Sub would be one before the 14060M, however, a vintage 14060M could be one prior to the latest COSC dial.. A vintage GMT could be any that was prior to the latest 116710, so you can buy a "vintage" GMT right now, BNIB at an AD... Almost anything out of production would be vintage.. but just because it is old, say a 15 year old 16610, would not; it would just be older..

19 September 2007, 03:23 AM	#3
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	Well, for Rolex USA, it is anything before a Saphire Cyrstal.

19 September 2007, 03:24 AM	#4
bwalkerVintage Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Real Name: Brendan Location: Cougar Country Posts: 825	I personally think that it would be something ~20-25 years old (or older). Thats the way it works for automobiles - classics could be considered to be 25 years or older. Just my .02

19 September 2007, 03:29 AM	#5
mikey "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA Watch: Oysterdate 6694 Posts: 2,713	20+ years makes it a classic. I drive a classic and wear a classic Rolex.

19 September 2007, 06:38 AM	#10
mike "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 22,683	It really depends on the circle one moves it IMO. Most "vintage" collectors feel to garner the term a watch needs to be 25 years or older. Some view true vintage pieces as possessing certain characteristics, specifically a plastic crystal, matt dial, gilt dial, a movement no longer made, or a reference no longer made. Over time what constitutes vintage will probably change as new collectors enter the vintage arena. I can see gloss tritium dials falling into this as time goes on. Noteworthy: vintage and desirability are two different things. Certainly there are any number of references that fall into a most everyone's definition of vintage, but lack desirability to the collector. Desirability is much harder to define, but generally has that "something" that sets the watch apart. As new collectors enter and views change that "something" can change. I think the real key is to decide what has legs and what is the "flavor of the month" LOL!

19 September 2007, 12:03 PM	#13
maverick Banned Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: maverick Location: Prescott Watch: Rolex Posts: 1,180	I have always admired your nice white one, Mike. =) maverick

19 September 2007, 12:25 PM	#14
Destroy Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Real Name: AJ Location: Australia Posts: 732	vintage > 25 yrs antique > 100 yrs

19 September 2007, 11:28 PM	#15
astcell "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Real Name: Robert Location: Angelus Oaks, CA Watch: 116713 Posts: 6,828	It's vintage if JJ can remember the day it came out and we can't.

20 September 2007, 10:39 AM	#18
jac67 "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: John Location: Australia Watch: Me Posts: 1,950	Agree with Chad. The general opinion amoungst Rolex collectors is anything with acrylic crystal, however there are exceptions to the general rule. There are the "transitional" watches with sapphire crystals BUT with tritium matt dials as Maverick and Mike above which are considered vintage. Others say, "If Rolex doesn't service it, then it's vintage". John.

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