I need your opinion on a bad transaction from TRF

[paracord]

Hi all,

Bear with me on this, but I'd like to lay out a transaction story from a recent purchase here on TRF and get your thoughts. I feel that I have been mislead, but I'd like the forum's opinion:

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I recently traded + cash an Omega PO 2500D for a Speedmaster Pro. The ad for the Speedie stated that the watch was "purchased brand new" in November of 2011 and hadn't been worn or resized, protective plastic still in place. Comes with

boxes, papers and dealer-stamped warranty card.

So far so good.

I offered up my PO 2500D, very late serial, purchased directly by me from the FAD at watchuseek and also in November of 2011. I described it "as-new" but worn and light hairlines in the bracelet around the clasp from 2 months of desk

diving, 99.95% condition but not "factory fresh in plastics" condition (like I thought I was getting).

The seller accepted + $400 in cash on my part. I really wanted a Speedie (especially a brand new one) so I accepted and paid the premium.

Upon receiving the Speedie, I immediately noticed that the watch only had the clasp plastic in place, and had some hairlines and slight nicks on the lugs, crystal, and caseback. OK....not terrible....I thought maybe that this was a

display model since it was supposed to be "brand new unworn"....but I started to get my doubts. Also the pictogram and wallet were missing. At this point I foolishly (and hastily it turned out) accepted, not knowing what I would find in the next 24 hours:

I ran the serial number and that's where the real concern started. The serial number dates this watch to 2007. I then searched some posts and found that the seller had actually asked the members on another forum to date a Speedie with

the same first three digits several times back in 2010. Definitely raised more questions.

To take the cake, I found out that the AD card was stamped by Bailey Banks & Biddle...and according to sources, they stopped being an Omega AD back in 2009 and liquidated their stock! The card is a 2011 Omega card, watch supposedly

purchased in 11/2011.....is this even possible from an AD that stopped in 2009? The jeweler field is stamped, but the Ref#, the Watch No, and the Date are hand-written.

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I'm interested in your opinions on:

1) should the seller have stated that the watch was this old? He seemed surprised and claimed (only after I questioned him) that he actually got it from eBay and was "told" it was purchased in 2011 and assumed it was new (basically blaming someone else). From his own post history I know this is BS. He has researched this very serial number for this very watch several times, and he has sold several in the past few years. I know he would not buy this watch and not be aware of the serial. This shows me that he knew that 7720 serials were made in 2007. I think it is not reasonable for a buyer to assume that a watch advertised as "bought new from AD in late in 2011" could have been made in 2007, and that fact should have been disclosed rather than "hey I didn't know, the guy I bought it from on eBay said it was new??"

2) Do you think a watch that I now know to be a nearly 5 year old speedmaster pro, with questionable documentation and in the same or worse condition than a late 2011 PO 2500D purchased from a FAD with 100% legit papers and stamped warranty card is an even trade? Not even mentioning the extra $400 thrown in.


I know I know....ultimately I could have and should have asked these questions up front. I'm not dismissing my own culpability. I probably trusted too much and that is my fault. I figured a "new from AD" watch couldn't go wrong. But

I also feel that this seller was purposely and knowingly misleading. I feel that this was a shady deal and that should never happen on a forum as tight-nit as this one. The watch I got may be fine...but I don't know and I don't really

want to find out. Hell it may be due for service already. I feel like I'm stuck with a watch that will be difficult to re-sell because of its questionable history. I've asked to privately reverse the deal because I'm not happy, but

the seller will not because he said it is past a 24 hour inspection period (it was 72 when I asked to reverse the deal) and because the sticker on the clasp has been removed (I guess he wants to reserve the right to try to pawn this off on the next guy as "New from AD" just because it has a sticker on the clasp). He offered to throw in a strap for the watch as a "courtesy" and when I declined he now will not return my emails. To me both sides should be happy in a deal and if they are not, a stand-up seller would just wash it. We're not talking about months down the road here, we're talking 72 hours. He knows that he made out and is favoring his trivial gain over an honorable deal.

I'm an admitted newbie and I'm even going so far as to withold his name until I make sure that I'm not crazy here. I don't want to wrongfully out someone.

Thoughts?

Thanks everyone.

[Welshwatchman]

My thoughts.

You didn't buy the watch from TRF. We do not sell watches.

What you probably meant to say is you had a bad transaction with XXXXX, presumably a member like yourself.

[Anthony.S]

Originally Posted by paracord

To me both sides should be happy in a deal and if they are not, a stand-up seller would just wash it.

Agreed.

[vmm]

That clearly doesn't sound like what you thought you were getting. I'm sure others with much more experience will chime in as to the proper procedure to pursue.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

My thoughts.

You didn't buy the watch from TRF. We do not sell watches.

What you probably meant to say is you had a bad transaction with XXXXX, presumably a member like yourself.

Yes sir you are correct. I just meant I saw his ad on TRF. I just wanted to be able to possibly warn someone else here.

TRF has nothing to do with the bad experience.

[Jeffa32]

Have you contacted the seller to voice your concerns. Communication is alway the first port of call when dealing with issues like this.

[Anthony.S]

Originally Posted by Jeffa32

Have you contacted the seller to voice your concerns. Communication is alway the first port of call when dealing with issues like this.

Why participate in a conversation if you aren't even going to read everything?

[paracord]

Originally Posted by Jeffa32

Have you contacted the seller to voice your concerns. Communication is alway the first port of call when dealing with issues like this.

Yep. I explained that in the post (sorry, I know its long). He declined to reverse the deal.

[vmm]

How can you have a watch purchased as new from an AD that hasn't existed in three years? The serial number dates it to 2007? Was it this exact serial number that he was searching or did he/she do a general dating by using the first 3 numerals? I personally would not accept that this as a LNIB or BNIB with plastics in place. Especially with all the hairlines and dings that are there. It sounds like the watch you traded is in much better shape. You should try contacting the seller again and see if anything can be done and point out that this thread on watchout. I'm sure the heavy hitter in this forum will chime in soon enough.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by vmm

How can you have a watch purchased as new from an AD that hasn't existed in three years? The serial number dates it to 2007? Was it this exact serial number that he was searching or did he/she do a general dating by using the first 3 numerals? I personally would not accept that this as a LNIB or BNIB with plastics in place. Especially with all the hairlines and dings that are there. It sounds like the watch you traded is in much better shape. You should try contacting the seller again and see if anything can be done and point out that this thread on watchout. I'm sure the heavy hitter in this forum will chime in soon enough.

I'm not sure. I guess it's possible that the card is counterfeit?

Regarding the serial...no....he just posted a generic first four digits question. I don't think it was the exact same watch (I hope not!) but his posts told me that 1) he checks the serial #'s of his watches, and 2) he knew when this watch was produced because it does have the same first four digits as the generic number he posted in 2010.

[77T]

Lots of questions that are hard to answer.

But I want to understand if this Speedy Pro is the same one you've posted wrist pics in WRUW many times since 1/5/12 up until 2/16?

The sale you're talking about is 6 weeks ago, right? And have you been wearing it since then?

Not pointing fingers in any direction - but wanted to be sure before answering yours.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by 77T

Lots of questions that are hard to answer.

But I want to understand if this Speedy Pro is the same one you've posted wrist pics in WRUW many times since 1/5/12 up until 2/16?

The sale you're talking about is 6 weeks ago, right? And have you been wearing it since then?

Not pointing fingers in any direction - but wanted to be sure before answering yours.

No sir. This watch was acquired just this week...on 2/14/12 by me. I think I did post it in one WRUW thread since then. All the others are from my old watch...the PO.

I got the watch on 2/14, and by 2/17 I realized I'd been had and asked for a reversal.

[clarencek]

I've done a number if deals online and have over 300 positive ratings (100%) on eBay. I think the seller should refund you. Regardless of what he knew or didn't know you're not happy with the deal. It's the honorable thing to do. But it looks like he's not going to do that.
I would like to know who this seller is so i can avoid him / her.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by clarencek

I've done a number if deals online and have over 300 positive ratings (100%) on eBay. I think the seller should refund you. Regardless of what he knew or didn't know you're not happy with the deal. It's the honorable thing to do. But it looks like he's not going to do that.
I would like to know who this seller is so i can avoid him / her.

I agree. who knows though...he may have already sold my old one. I think AT LEAST he should make up the difference in value between the 5 year old watch and the 3 month old watch. To me that is the 400 cash plus a little more.

But as I said I'd be MORE THAN happy to just erase the deal and get my old one back + the money.

Your vote to disclose the name is noted. If the prevailing theme in this thread is to disclose his name I will do that. I'd like to hear a few more opinions first.

Thank you.

[Andad]

I'm disappointed that you are unhappy with a transaction that took place between Forum members....

It's time for the seller to post up their take on this situation IMO.

[liuk3]

I'd like to know who this was. Seems kind of sketchy to me, but there are two sides to every story.

I guess if counterparty never used words like BNIB or LNIB when selling, maybe you can't assume BNIB condition? Still, I would think that 72 hours is short enough to period to reverse the deal so long as you provide the product in the same condition. If you removed all the stickers and wore it, I don't know whether I would want it back either. Kind of like those women who buy a dress for a party and then return it the next day.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by directioneng

I'm disappointed that you are unhappy with a transaction that took place between Forum members....

It's time for the seller to post up their take on this situation IMO.

I would welcome that.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by liuk3

I'd like to know who this was. Seems kind of sketchy to me, but there are two sides to every story.

I guess if counterparty never used words like BNIB or LNIB when selling, maybe you can't assume BNIB condition? Still, I would think that 72 hours is short enough to period to reverse the deal so long as you provide the product in the same condition. If you removed all the stickers and wore it, I don't know whether I would want it back either. Kind of like those women who buy a dress for a party and then return it the next day.

Understood. Just to clarify: There was only one sticker....on the clasp. And he is using that to justify that the watch is "Brand new never worn."

This, quite simply, was not the case. Not in terms of condition....it has scratches and dings, nor in terms of age......it is 5 years old.

To me, the sticker is of no consequence because if he got this watch back and wanted to sell it, he should disclose that it is NOT "Brand new never worn." Whether or not it has a sticker affixed to the clasp.

[Anthony.S]

Originally Posted by paracord

Your vote to disclose the name is noted. If the prevailing theme in this thread is to disclose his name I will do that. I'd like to hear a few more opinions first.

Thank you.

Definitely name the seller.

I would also like to avoid him.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by Anthony.S

Definitely name the seller.

I would also like to avoid him.

Noted. Out of complete fairness, I'd also like to give him the chance to chime in....

Just an FYI, I know he's already browsed this thread.

[paracord]

I just was contacted by the seller via email. The mystery is solved related to the PO....he already has made a deal to trade it on another watch.

I'm sure he'll be posting soon and I encourage that.

[vmm]

To be fair to both parties we should hear the other side of the story.

[pawnshopkiller]

Anytime now.

[pawnshopkiller]

Maybe the guy got a hold of a newer watch and took it's clasp and warranty card away to help sell his old watch.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by pawnshopkiller

Maybe the guy got a hold of a newer watch and took it's clasp and warranty card away to help sell his old watch.

I was thinking that too. Who knows. I wouldn't rule anything out at this point. The guy also told me during the trade that he's never had a PO before. I found posts from the past in which he refers to "his PO." ?? So who knows?

[psv]

Something is not kosher here.

Then again, you should have raised a flag within the agreed 24 hrs.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by psv

Something is not kosher here.

Then again, you should have raised a flag within the agreed 24 hrs.

I cannot argue that. This is my first forum purchase and it took me 48 extra hours to come to my senses. I'll definitely know for next time.

But ouch....when a guy is dishonest and is called on it, he should make it right even after 72 hrs.

[Andelain]

I'm in the camp that wants to know his name, so I can avoid him.

[paracord]

All,

Another update on this: The seller has contacted me once again via email and has corrected some mis-information that I put in the original post. HE IS NOT the forum member at watchuseek that was searching for speedie serial numbers in 2010. Unbelievably, that user shares his first name but it is NOT the same person. I want to edit that part of the story out of my original post, but it will not let me since it was posted on a different day, so I will correct it here. Mods: Please let me know if there is a way I can unlock my original post from yesterday and I'll update it there. My mistake on this.

I WANT TO BE CLEAR: THIS DOES NOT CHANGE MY BEEF WITH THIS SALE IN ANY WAY. Here is the email I sent back to him:

XXXXX,

I just reviewed your original private messages from TRF and you are correct. I got the wrong XXXXX on watchuseek. The odds of that are amazing, but you are certainly correct. I will definitely correct my post.

I want to be absolutely crystal clear though: This changes nothing. You are a guy that moves a lot of watches. You know how to look at the serial numbers of what you sell. You still sold a 5 year old watch as brand new and took it on a trade for a 3 month old watch.

I'm updating the thread now.

[MonBK]

I certainly would like to hear the other side of the story.