Sub 16800 questions

[Tri-National-Man]

Thinking of acquiring a 16800.. This one has matte dial with applied gold markers.. How long was this model produced before gloss dial was introduced?

[buffy]

The matte dial was available 79-83/84 if I am not mistaken.

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by Tri-National-Man

Thinking of acquiring a 16800.. This one has matte dial with applied gold markers.. How long was this model produced before gloss dial was introduced?

Great choice love them !

Good luck with your hunt !

[DiamondJack]

The reference 16800 was introduced in 1977-78 and was the first Sub to have the 3135 cal. movement and also the first to have the sapphire crystal and increased depth rating from 660 feet to 1000 feet.

However, early dials did not have the gold hour markers and had the matte dials. It was not until sometime around 1985 that white gold surrounds were added to the luminous hour markers. So if your 16800 has the gold hour surrounds then it will most likely be a later 16800.

My understanding is that these later versions with the gold hour markers originally all had gloss dials but often you will find that the tritium reaction with the paint over time has turned them matte as has happened on mine. But the gold hour markers you mention means it will be a later 16800 unless of course the dial has been replaced.

You would need the serial number or guarantee papers to be able to check this.

But in my opinion, the later 16800 is the most attractive from a collecting point of view since it was the first to have all of the 16800 additions such as the sapphire crystal, increased depth rating, the gloss dial, the gold hour markers etc etc.

The earlier 16800 still retained some of the features already available on the 1680.

[Tudor66]

Originally Posted by DiamondJack

The reference 16800... was the first Sub to have the 3135 cal. movement and also the first to have the sapphire crystal and increased depth rating from 660 feet to 1000 feet.

But in my opinion, the later 16800 is the most attractive from a collecting point of view since it was the first to have all of the 16800 additions such as the sapphire crystal, increased depth rating, the gloss dial, the gold hour markers etc etc.

I agree with the gentlemen from London....,

[azguy]

Originally Posted by DiamondJack

The reference 16800 was introduced in 1977-78 and was the first Sub to have the 3135 cal. movement and also the first to have the sapphire crystal and increased depth rating from 660 feet to 1000 feet.

However, early dials did not have the gold hour markers and had the matte dials. It was not until sometime around 1985 that white gold surrounds were added to the luminous hour markers. So if your 16800 has the gold hour surrounds then it will most likely be a later 16800.

My understanding is that these later versions with the gold hour markers originally all had gloss dials but often you will find that the tritium reaction with the paint over time has turned them matte as has happened on mine. But the gold hour markers you mention means it will be a later 16800 unless of course the dial has been replaced.

You would need the serial number or guarantee papers to be able to check this.

But in my opinion, the later 16800 is the most attractive from a collecting point of view since it was the first to have all of the 16800 additions such as the sapphire crystal, increased depth rating, the gloss dial, the gold hour markers etc etc.

The earlier 16800 still retained some of the features already available on the 1680.

Great post, but I think the earlier matt dials are the more sought after IMO

[The Duke]

I agree azguy! i have a 1984 that had the original matte dial. however, one trip for a tuneup to rolex and i was forced to replace:( would gladly trade the new one for the original.

[dysondiver]

Originally Posted by The Duke

I agree azguy! i have a 1984 that had the original matte dial. however, one trip for a tuneup to rolex and i was forced to replace:( would gladly trade the new one for the original.

at that age i certainly wouldnt be sending it to rolex for a service , for the reasons youve found out , but i do like the white gold dials , i know matte etc etc , but the new ones do seem to dull down , and become sort of matte ish .

[DiamondJack]

Originally Posted by azguy

Great post, but I think the earlier matt dials are the more sought after IMO

Thanks John and you're correct, certainly in terms of value, as they are that bit older and the vintage collectors don't like to venture too far into the modern era Indeed, they usually frown even when you mention a sapphire crystal .

But from my own point of view, as a collector, I already have a matt dial and no gold surrounds on my red 1680.

Therefore, I was keen to get the 16800 with all the extras that this model incorporated before it moved to the 168000 for about 9 months which just had a better quality stainless steel.

But ultimately it's personal preference. I just think that with this model there are probably far less 16800 with the gold surrounds since they only came in from 1985 before it changed to the 168000 in c.1988 and then to the 16610 in 1989. Whereas the non gold hour surrounds were produced from 1977 to 1985.

Here's my Tango 16800

[dysondiver]

wow ,,, that could be the best looking strap set up ive seen , sleek .

[Keeperoftime]

Originally Posted by dysondiver

wow ,,, that could be the best looking strap set up ive seen , sleek .

+1

Looks wonderful

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by Keeperoftime

+1

Looks wonderful

+2 . . . ;-)

Like it

HANT

[Kingair]

dp sorry . . . . .

HANT

[azguy]

yummie patina

[Daimler]

Love the matching strap

[DiamondJack]

Thanks guys

Really appreciate the kind words.....

[Tri-National-Man]

Yeah nice! Thanks for the comprehensive answers members...This forum ROCKS !! And that croc strap looks ace DiamondJack!

[The Duke]

how long does it take to get that patina on the newer dial with the white gold surrounds?

[The Duke]

Originally Posted by DiamondJack

The reference 16800 was introduced in 1977-78 and was the first Sub to have the 3135 cal. movement and also the first to have the sapphire crystal and increased depth rating from 660 feet to 1000 feet.

However, early dials did not have the gold hour markers and had the matte dials. It was not until sometime around 1985 that white gold surrounds were added to the luminous hour markers. So if your 16800 has the gold hour surrounds then it will most likely be a later 16800.

My understanding is that these later versions with the gold hour markers originally all had gloss dials but often you will find that the tritium reaction with the paint over time has turned them matte as has happened on mine. But the gold hour markers you mention means it will be a later 16800 unless of course the dial has been replaced.

You would need the serial number or guarantee papers to be able to check this.

But in my opinion, the later 16800 is the most attractive from a collecting point of view since it was the first to have all of the 16800 additions such as the sapphire crystal, increased depth rating, the gloss dial, the gold hour markers etc etc.

The earlier 16800 still retained some of the features already available on the 1680.

My 16800 production date 1984 i believe has the 3035 movement. When did they transition to the 3135?

[azguy]

Originally Posted by The Duke

how long does it take to get that patina on the newer dial with the white gold surrounds?

a long time

[DiamondJack]

Originally Posted by The Duke

My 16800 production date 1984 i believe has the 3035 movement. When did they transition to the 3135?

Zach... Sorry just a typo. The 16800 had the 3035 movement. The 3135 came in with the 16610 in the late 80's.

[DiamondJack]

Originally Posted by The Duke

how long does it take to get that patina on the newer dial with the white gold surrounds?

Many collectors believe that the chance of there being some patina resulted primarily from the particular batch of tritium used and you will see some references with darker patinas than others.

However, another widely accepted reason appears to be lack of daylight. My 16800, for example, is known to have been kept in a safe for about 24 years..... so don't hold your breath

But there again, I've got an older 1680 Red Sub from 1970 which was another safe queen and has still got a very creamy patina...... so who knows.......and if I was to hazzard a guess..... i would say it was more to do with the particular tritium used and its radio activity rather than daylight although both may have an influence.

This is my Red Sub from 1970 to show the lighter and more creamy patina.









In answer to your question on newer gold surround dials, the 16610 (so the Sub date model after the 16800 and 168000) in the late 80's brought in Superluminova not tritium and, as such, it is doubtful you will see any change in colour although if you wait long enough....... who knows

[John in MA]

Another example of tritium that hasn't aged. My tritium is still almost stark white still. Even the hands are just slightly Creme.