Excerpting from the posts of fellow forumites

[Ken Cox]

Greetings.

Some of the folks on this forum already know my "gruesome story."

The watchmaker who, in my humble opinion, has defrauded me, has also agreed to refund my money plus damages.

However, the "I sent the check...whoops...I'll send it tomorrow, honest" game has begun.

Since this watchmaker has a heavy dependence on the internet for customers, I have decided to prepare a blog regarding my experience with him, which will appear close to his site on Google searches.

In support of this, I would like to quote or excerpt from some of the posts of the Rolex experts, aficianados and collectors on this forum who have edified me and given me such good advice.

If anyone who participated in the REALITY thread objects to me quoting or excerpting from their posts, or linking to them, please let me know.
I want to show respect for the people who have so far given me so much information and moral support.

Similarly, if anyone would like to contribute to the effort with a few choice words I can use, please feel free to call me or e-mail me.

Thanks.

Your friend in Bend,

Ken

[llamaofdoom]

like that. You could be setting yourself up for a nasty defamation/libel action if you aren't very careful in the way that you handle the situation.

[Downing]

Originally Posted by llamaofdoom

like that. You could be setting yourself up for a nasty defamation/libel action if you aren't very careful in the way that you handle the situation.

Good idea. You could also ask the attorney to send a "demand letter," too. Inexpensive and can work wonders.

Disclaimer: I'm not trolling for business as that's not my area of the law.

[Ken Cox]

Yes, I have talked to my attorney at length about this, and she has advised me to do this and to remain rigorously truthful, factual, unemotional and respectful.

I can do that.

The condition of the watch speaks for itself.

A high-activity AD has examined this watch and described the work done by the subject watchmaker as having rendered it "counterfeit."

An RSC has said they don't feel comfortable with the word "counterfeit," but would use the word "damaged."
The RSC wants to take photos of the watch and send them to Rolex for a determination of its status.

Both the AD and RSC have described the "new" clasp as refurbished and as manufactured by Rolex in June of 1985.

Given the condition of the crown and tube of this watch, despite its alleged "restored" condition, the AD and RSC have told me to not expose this watch to water, even in the shower.

They have both confirmed the retail price of a part for which the subject watchmaker charged me $360 as, in reality, $135.

Rolex has confirmed the subject watchmaker does not have a small parts contract, and they have not sold parts to him for over four years.

And, then I will have a picture of the dial, with the minute hand eight minutes past the hour, and the hour hand not yet arrived at the hour.

I would like to include the opinions of some of my fellow Rolex forumites, especially to the effect that a Rolex owner should, for peace of mind, only do business with AD's and RSC's, because of what has happened to my watch.

A highly respected director of a professional association of watchmakers has said to me, "It blows me away that people will send a family heirloom to somebody on the internet whom they have never met, and whom they cannot conveniently confront face-to-face."

It doesn't seem fair or right to quote him, given the political consequences to him if I repeat something said by him in a private conversation.

However, I think many of the members on this forum could safely and respectfully express personal opinions that would help me put indirect non-slanderous and non-libelous pressure on the subject watchmaker.

Mike, for example, wrote a very informative mini-essay on tritium dials, and the significance of re-lumeing a tritium dial with Luminova.

The AD has said the re-lumeing, in the presence of the radiation notation at the bottom of the dial, has rendered this watch "counterfeit."
As I said before, the RSC prefers the word "damaged" and they would send the photo to Rolex and in all probability force a replacement of the dial; although, this would render the watch no longer "original."

Things like that.

But, if folks don't feel comfortable with this, I want to hear about it before I cause any hard feelings.

[Downing]

Hey, it's fine by me if you want to quote anything I said. But if memory serves, I think I only suggested that you have the Rolex-certified watchmaker at my AD take a look at it. Probably not all that helpful.

Good luck, Ken. This really bites.

[Ken Cox]

We've already done the demand letter, and he has agreed, on the phone, to a full refund plus damages.

However, the check game has begun.

"I mailed it."

"I'll mail it this morning."

"I'll mail it tomorrow, honest."

He'll make excuses indefinitely to see if he can wear me down.

Monday, I plan to file in small claims court here in Bend.

How nice that this falls in my jurisdiction and not in his.

My attorney says she guarantees few things in the legal system, but, in this case, with the watch as evidence, the invoice, and him not showing up, I will absolutely get a judgment in my favor, which will lead to a lien against his property.
What a waste of time, energy, money and correspondence.

If, on Friday, I do not receive the check, and, if it does not clear his bank, by Friday evening I'll have my web site up.
I'd like for it to have a little more moral substance than the pictures, a copy of the invoice, and my own words.

If I can cut and paste a little from this forum, or link to a post in context, I think it would give me some teeth without incurring any liability to my fellow forumites.

I guess I could have done this without telling anyone.
That doesn't seem right.

Gosh, people quote me.
I get a lot of requests to use an essay I wrote regarding "Relational Aggression (Bullying)" and which a friend posted on his own web site.
Search engines find it all the time.

[redshirt1957]

Originally Posted by Ken Cox

Greetings.

Some of the folks on this forum already know my "gruesome story."

The watchmaker who, in my humble opinion, has defrauded me, has also agreed to refund my money plus damages.

However, the "I sent the check...whoops...I'll send it tomorrow, honest" game has begun.

Since this watchmaker has a heavy dependence on the internet for customers, I have decided to prepare a blog regarding my experience with him, which will appear close to his site on Google searches.

In support of this, I would like to quote or excerpt from some of the posts of the Rolex experts, aficianados and collectors on this forum who have edified me and given me such good advice.

If anyone who participated in the REALITY thread objects to me quoting or excerpting from their posts, or linking to them, please let me know.
I want to show respect for the people who have so far given me so much information and moral support.

Similarly, if anyone would like to contribute to the effort with a few choice words I can use, please feel free to call me or e-mail me.

Thanks.

Your friend in Bend,

Ken

Do not get mad when you read my post. I am just trying to help.

Take the advice of the other members. Not that I know anything about the law....I will post part of your quote and pretend this is a deposition.

"If anyone who participated in the REALITY thread objects to me quoting or excerpting from their posts, or linking to them, please let me know".

Remember...I am only playing the ROLE of a bulldog attorney! I almost did not send this post.

First path I would travel down. What are the credentials of the supposed experts that you are quoting? What due diligence did you perform to ascertain their level of their expertise? Did you know the members only by a pseudonym and is this your normal method of selecting and taking the advice of professionals? I then would mention CPAs/Doctors/Engineers and so on.

Second path I would charge down. I would challenge your intentions and use your own words gainst you. I would strongly point out that you did not properly ask members of TRF to give permission to be quoted. What you did, in a non-public forum (i.e. your post), was advertise for members to contact you only if they do not want to be quoted. I would legally bloviate that you did this because you knew your case was weak. You mention "excerpting from their posts, or linking to them". I would paint this as an attempt to edit and change the meaning of the opinions for your gain. I will stop as I am getting a headache.

Don't get mad. Just some advice of someone who has been there. I know your intentions are good and you just want justice. I am on your side. I just want you to be very careful when making accusations using other people's opinions. Criminal and civil actions are two different animals. Since I can't spell I left out all of the big legal words. A demand letter is the way to go at first.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Good luck, Ken!

[Ken Cox]

I appreciate redshirt's insights.

Thanks.

I got this idea from a friend who wanted to have his 48 foot boat trucked from Minnesota to Oregon.

He contracted with a mom and pop trucking company that specializes in boats, and paid them a 1/3 deposit.

They never showed up to move is boat, citing excuse after excuse, and would not return his deposit.

My friend then created a quick and dirty web site, with lots of key words that would cause his web site to appear in a search engine, close to the web site of the trucking company.

He then told his side of the story as factually and truthfully as he could, and in as few words as possible.

It immediately impacted the trucking company's business, and they promptly returned my friend's deposit.

For myself, I just want to provide some incentive for this watchmaker to send the check he has agreed to send if I would not take him to small claims court.

It looks like we've entered the phase of endless runarounds, and I want to stick something in the spokes and make the wheel stop spinning long enough for him to send me the check he has promised "on his honor."

Anyway, after reading redshirt's response, it has occurred to me, out of respect and courtesy, I ought not involve my fellow forumites in my business.

Thanks, anyway.

Your friend in Bend,

Ken

[Destroy]

Best of luck Ken. It's good to see you fighting for your rights. There's nothing worse than being ripped of by someone and knowing that they'll most likely do exactly the same thing to someone else.

This guy aside, there seems to be a growing number of companies around that leave the customer high and dry. I purchased something recently which was damaged when I got it - and since the shop that delivered it denied all responsibility, I went to the supplier. He didn't want a bar of it. Claimed that QC would have picked it up etc etc....

Finally I had to go to the manufacturer who reluctantly sorted it out. This is after lengthy letters and emails mind you. But keep at it. Persistance does net results. And it will make everyone down the line double check what they're doing/selling/delivering. Sometimes sellers get sloppy when they deliver a good brand - and they'll get away with as much as they can because people for the most part just grin and bear it. Sad really. I refuse to put up with anything that isn't as it should be. I simply want what I paid for - if you can't give me that, I'd like my money back please.

So keep at it and keep us informed.

Cheers mate
AJ