5513 vs 5512

[Alerion]

What is the difference in the Chronometer and non chronometer watches is one better than the other

[joe100]

Chronometers are certified by the COSC and keep time within -4/+6 seconds a day. Non-chronometers aren't certified within these parameters. I have a 1520 movement in my watch which is not certified. Keeps time well within COSC standards.

Is one better than the other? Well the AirKing and GMT Master are my specialty so I can't comment on collectability but COSC certification never mattered to me

[RC2]

5512 certified 5513 is not. 5512 is rarer and goes for a premium since it was not made for but a few years. Rich

[Vlad]

movement: 5513 - 1530/1520 while 5512 - 1560/1570. Usually 1570 has more jewels than 1520 (but I think that also depends on the market). Dials are different, and 5512 dials are a lot harder to find. Often case backs are mismatched, that's how you get some watches being advertises as 5513/5512

[Alerion]

What is a good price to pay for 5512 and 5513 similar condition, in working order and 1-2 dings, polished a several times say

How much does the lack of a bracelet affect the value?

Does a service replacement Bezel insert reduce value?

If the watch requires service which might be $1000+ should the price be reduced by this much

Thanks for all previous replys and help

[Vincent65]

it's basically more print on the dial

[Alerion]

[QUOTE=Alerion;3842333]What is a good price to pay for 5512 and 5513 similar condition, in working order and 1-2 dings, polished a several times say

How much does the lack of a bracelet affect the value?

Does a service replacement Bezel insert reduce value?

If the watch requires service which might be $1000+ should the price be reduced by this much

What is a good high / low price range to pay for complete 5512 and 5513 watch only, in similar condition, in working order and 1-2 dings, polished a several times say or say lack of a crisp bevel on the case, would there be $1000 difference?

How much value does a complete set of papers add to 5512 /5513?

How much does the lack of a bracelet affect the value?

Does a service replacement Bezel insert reduce value?

If the watch requires service (cleaning, crystal polish)which might be $1000+ should the price be reduced by this much?

Is the a serial number on the movement that should match the case?

What are things(repairs) to look for that could increase your purchase cost?

What things detract from the value?

[Vlad]

Alerion,

Those are all interesting question, but for you to learn, please do some research. Opinions differ, however your opinion for your purchase is the most important. There are a lot of resources on the internet.

Having said that, if you really do not know these details, you should not be considering buying a vintage watch.

[kooltzar]

Let me try to answer:

Yes, a watch requiring a service should be cheaper. However, as these vintage pieces are better be serviced by an independent watchmaker (preserving originality of parts), you should calculate about 800 USD max. as a reduction in value.

Any replacement part will reduce value, as these pieces are not period correct to the watch. You should check going prices for original spare parts you would need to source to make the watch period correct and deduct the price of an authentic replacement part, the difference is the decrease in value.

The lack of a bracelet should reduce value by 800 to 1000 USD for a vintage sub.

Rolex does not match numbers of case with movements.

Cleaning requirements do not necessarily reduce the value of a vintage watch, on the contrary: on overpolished watch has a lower value than an unpolished one.

No to the value of a 5512/5513:

That varies a lot depending on which time period (eg. which dial, etc.).

Benchmarks:

5512 pcg gilt (early 60ies): 7000 to 12000 USD
5512 matt dial m first (late 60ies): 5000 to 7000 USD
5512 ft first (70ies): 4500 to 6000 USD
5513 gilt (early 60ies): 5000 to 7000 USD
5513 matt dial (late60ies, 70ies): 4000 to 5000 USD
5513 wg surrounds: 3000 to 3500 USD

As I said, these are just indicative figures, the actual values depend on a lot of factors.

[Alerion]

kooltzar, thanks for your detailed answers. I'm sure it will be very helpful.

I'm looking at 67 5512 ft first head only with no band the seller was asking $6,950 matt dial, the plating on weight on movement had peeled off for some reason the seller said it might have been soaked too long in cleaning solution, I thought possible flooding in salt water and left for a while. Going by your ball park estimate 3500 - 4500

[pdoukas]

I would have thought that a 1967 would have been meters first?

[financeman]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

Let me try to answer:

Yes, a watch requiring a service should be cheaper. However, as these vintage pieces are better be serviced by an independent watchmaker (preserving originality of parts), you should calculate about 800 USD max. as a reduction in value.

Any replacement part will reduce value, as these pieces are not period correct to the watch. You should check going prices for original spare parts you would need to source to make the watch period correct and deduct the price of an authentic replacement part, the difference is the decrease in value.

The lack of a bracelet should reduce value by 800 to 1000 USD for a vintage sub.

Rolex does not match numbers of case with movements.

Cleaning requirements do not necessarily reduce the value of a vintage watch, on the contrary: on overpolished watch has a lower value than an unpolished one.

No to the value of a 5512/5513:

That varies a lot depending on which time period (eg. which dial, etc.).

Benchmarks:

5512 pcg gilt (early 60ies): 7000 to 12000 USD
5512 matt dial m first (late 60ies): 5000 to 7000 USD
5512 ft first (70ies): 4500 to 6000 USD
5513 gilt (early 60ies): 5000 to 7000 USD
5513 matt dial (late60ies, 70ies): 4000 to 5000 USD
5513 wg surrounds: 3000 to 3500 USD

As I said, these are just indicative figures, the actual values depend on a lot of factors.

Very informative post. Thanks for sharing that with us. It helped me out a lot understanding the differance as well.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Vlad

movement: 5513 - 1530/1520 while 5512 - 1560/1570. Usually 1570 has more jewels than 1520 (but I think that also depends on the market). Dials are different, and 5512 dials are a lot harder to find. Often case backs are mismatched, that's how you get some watches being advertises as 5513/5512

Both 5512/3 use exactly the same case back so you could have one stamped 5513 on a 5512 and visa versa.And 5512,and 5513 could have the 1530 movement depending on date.The first few 5512 models that came out did not bear the chronometer (Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified) writing on the dial, and actually were not chronometers at all.While later 5512 had the 1800BPH 1560 25 Jewel then a change to the 1570 26 Jewel 19800bph movement.

[Alerion]

This is 72-5512 I'm looking asking $7000, Here is what I see wrong no bracelet and original bezel insert mising and butterfly winder doesn't look all that good, I'm not sure if the 1570 movement should have swirling on the flat surfaces. There is about a dozen pits on the crown side of the case.

[Alerion]

mistake

[Alerion]

Correction to previous post. This is a watch I'm looking at to purchase the asking price is $7000 WYSIWYG.

It looks as though it was cleaned and polished ( shinny) but it also looks like it must have pretty bad at one point given it is corroded and missing the swirling there also seems to be a srew not sitting flush or seated.


This is not a great example of mint watch and probably a watch that represents the lower end of the 5512 scale for condition.

[Vincent65]

corrosion - pass

[vkychoo]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge

Originally Posted by kooltzar

Let me try to answer:

Yes, a watch requiring a service should be cheaper. However, as these vintage pieces are better be serviced by an independent watchmaker (preserving originality of parts), you should calculate about 800 USD max. as a reduction in value.

Any replacement part will reduce value, as these pieces are not period correct to the watch. You should check going prices for original spare parts you would need to source to make the watch period correct and deduct the price of an authentic replacement part, the difference is the decrease in value.

The lack of a bracelet should reduce value by 800 to 1000 USD for a vintage sub.

Rolex does not match numbers of case with movements.

Cleaning requirements do not necessarily reduce the value of a vintage watch, on the contrary: on overpolished watch has a lower value than an unpolished one.

No to the value of a 5512/5513:

That varies a lot depending on which time period (eg. which dial, etc.).

Benchmarks:

5512 pcg gilt (early 60ies): 7000 to 12000 USD
5512 matt dial m first (late 60ies): 5000 to 7000 USD
5512 ft first (70ies): 4500 to 6000 USD
5513 gilt (early 60ies): 5000 to 7000 USD
5513 matt dial (late60ies, 70ies): 4000 to 5000 USD
5513 wg surrounds: 3000 to 3500 USD

As I said, these are just indicative figures, the actual values depend on a lot of factors.

[Vlad]

Interesting case back. Not from 1972. Most likely mid 80s service replacement.