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Clay · 30 March 2013, 10:32 AM

In my day, when you advertised a watch as having Box and Papers, that meant that you had a watch with the original boxes and the original Chronometer Certificate...

It seems that no longer holds true???

I have noticed a number of watches being advertised lately as having "Box and Papers" but having No Chrono Cert...???

Instead they have original sales receipts or service papers...

Both of which are certainly nice to have, but I can't help but feel this is just the least bit, shall we say, misleading???

Especially to someone who is NEW to the vintage Rolex world...

Am I being overly critical here???

springer · 30 March 2013, 10:57 AM

Anyone advertising a watch for sale claiming B/P obviously knows what "box and papers" mean and the added value it places on a vintage watch. If they don't have the original warranty certificate (referred to as paper or papers), then it is not a box and papers set. Having the original accessories, boxes and paper means original warranty certificate and original booklets and accessories. Service papers, receipts etc does not mean paper/papers and personally adds no value for me when buying. I would have to agree that claiming original B/P and not having them is misleading.

StuartM1970 · 30 March 2013, 09:20 PM

Here, here.

A receipt is not 'papers'.

Sent from my house.

cop414 · 30 March 2013, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springer

Anyone advertising a watch for sale claiming B/P obviously knows what "box and papers" mean and the added value it places on a vintage watch. If they don't have the original warranty certificate (referred to as paper or papers), then it is not a box and papers set. Having the original accessories, boxes and paper means original warranty certificate and original booklets and accessories. Service papers, receipts etc does not mean paper/papers and personally adds no value for me when buying. I would have to agree that claiming original B/P and not having them is misleading.

Agree 100% on this!

GeoGio Greece · 30 March 2013, 10:13 PM

Yes, I agree that when we say "Box & papers" we shall mean at least the original box & papers delivered with the watch at the date of the purchase from AD.

If further accessories such as the plastic chronometer seal, calendar, manual, leather pocket, anchor, etc., are still kept, then the "set" shall be considered as proof of either intention to sell as from the very first moment of purchase

( I did that in the past ) or good housekeeping by the owner.( I do that now )

Anything on top of that, such as service certificates, photos, tags, history of being on the Everest or in Greenwich, or the bottom of the sea, can be judged by each individual if of value or not.

HL65 · 30 March 2013, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springer

Anyone advertising a watch for sale claiming B/P obviously knows what "box and papers" mean and the added value it places on a vintage watch. If they don't have the original warranty certificate (referred to as paper or papers), then it is not a box and papers set. Having the original accessories, boxes and paper means original warranty certificate and original booklets and accessories. Service papers, receipts etc does not mean paper/papers and personally adds no value for me when buying. I would have to agree that claiming original B/P and not having them is misleading.

X3

padi56 · 30 March 2013, 10:18 PM

Its nice to have the original so called papers and bits with a rare vintage watch,but never rely on these bits of paper boxes etc to prove authenticity of any watch.

Clay · 30 March 2013, 10:23 PM

Personally I would rather have recent service papers, especially from Rolex...
How ever to advertise "service" papers as "THE" papers is wrong wrong wrong!!!

HL65 · 30 March 2013, 10:37 PM

Personally I rather have most superlative example of watch and you can keep the rest.

GeoGio Greece · 30 March 2013, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Personally I rather have most superlative example of watch and you can keep the rest.

Very correct, but mind you that some documents help you to avoid stolen watches at some instances.

I have turned down an excellent quote for a Germit a couple of years ago, because nothing was coming with it and I didn't know the seller at all.

It all differs of course, if the seller is a well known person.

Knappo 1307 · 30 March 2013, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clay

Personally I would rather have recent service papers, especially from Rolex...
How ever to advertise "service" papers as "THE" papers is wrong wrong wrong!!!

To be honest, I never really see this. If someone is selling and they only have service papers, they usually specify service papers. Not to say it doesn't happen, I've just never really found this to be a issue....

Micha · 31 March 2013, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clay

Personally I would rather have recent service papers, especially from Rolex...
How ever to advertise "service" papers as "THE" papers is wrong wrong wrong!!!

x2

Vincent65 · 31 March 2013, 02:29 AM

it may mislead you to click on and read the ad (the objective, of course), but then you soon find out it means recent service docs or sales receipt or whatever. Made you/us look though, didn't it...

30 March 2013, 10:32 AM	#1
Clay Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Up a tree Posts: 4,001	Box & Papers... In my day, when you advertised a watch as having Box and Papers, that meant that you had a watch with the original boxes and the original Chronometer Certificate... It seems that no longer holds true??? I have noticed a number of watches being advertised lately as having "Box and Papers" but having No Chrono Cert...??? Instead they have original sales receipts or service papers... Both of which are certainly nice to have, but I can't help but feel this is just the least bit, shall we say, misleading??? Especially to someone who is NEW to the vintage Rolex world... Am I being overly critical here???

30 March 2013, 10:57 AM	#2
springer 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: jP Location: Texas Watch: GMT-MASTER Posts: 17,319	Anyone advertising a watch for sale claiming B/P obviously knows what "box and papers" mean and the added value it places on a vintage watch. If they don't have the original warranty certificate (referred to as paper or papers), then it is not a box and papers set. Having the original accessories, boxes and paper means original warranty certificate and original booklets and accessories. Service papers, receipts etc does not mean paper/papers and personally adds no value for me when buying. I would have to agree that claiming original B/P and not having them is misleading. __________________ Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics.

30 March 2013, 10:13 PM	#5
GeoGio Greece "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: George Location: Athens, Greece Watch: es --> A lot ! Posts: 2,327	Yes, I agree that when we say "Box & papers" we shall mean at least the original box & papers delivered with the watch at the date of the purchase from AD. If further accessories such as the plastic chronometer seal, calendar, manual, leather pocket, anchor, etc., are still kept, then the "set" shall be considered as proof of either intention to sell as from the very first moment of purchase ( I did that in the past ) or good housekeeping by the owner.( I do that now ) Anything on top of that, such as service certificates, photos, tags, history of being on the Everest or in Greenwich, or the bottom of the sea, can be judged by each individual if of value or not. __________________ Rolex owner since 1971. 5513 and 16700 the loved ones. DJ WG Jubilee 16170 for wife - U series Oyster Perpetual WG 177234 for daughter V-series

30 March 2013, 10:18 PM	#7
padi56 "TRF" Life Patron Join Date: Jun 2005 Real Name: Peter Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng Watch: ing you. Posts: 53,064	Its nice to have the original so called papers and bits with a rare vintage watch,but never rely on these bits of paper boxes etc to prove authenticity of any watch. __________________ ICom Pro3 All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only. "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever." Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again. www.mc0yad.club Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder

30 March 2013, 10:37 PM	#9
HL65 TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Real Name: Ken Location: SW Florida Watch: One on my wrist. Posts: 64,010	Personally I rather have most superlative example of watch and you can keep the rest. __________________ *SPEM SUCCESSUS ALIT*

30 March 2013, 09:20 PM	#3
StuartM1970 "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Real Name: Stuart Location: Dubai Watch: IWC Mark XV Posts: 280	Here, here. A receipt is not 'papers'. Sent from my house.

30 March 2013, 10:23 PM	#8
Clay Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Up a tree Posts: 4,001	Personally I would rather have recent service papers, especially from Rolex... How ever to advertise "service" papers as "THE" papers is wrong wrong wrong!!!

31 March 2013, 02:29 AM	#13
Vincent65 "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Switzerland Posts: 14,298	it may mislead you to click on and read the ad (the objective, of course), but then you soon find out it means recent service docs or sales receipt or whatever. Made you/us look though, didn't it...

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