question for porshe 911 enthusiasts?

[Rsvrider]

Originally Posted by topgear

Gentlemen,
I am also interested to hear from the Carrera 911 experts here how does the Cayman measure up to Carrera 911. Of course Carrera is supreme in terms of heritage and performance compared to the Cayman.

However, does Cayman offer the same 'Porsche experience' - in terms of ride and handling?

IMHO you cant compare. One is rear engine the other mid. The cars we are talking about (993 and earlier) are outgunned technology wise vs the 987C (hate the new stupid names Porsche keeps givng the new generation cars).
Overall it IS a great car, nice balance, power and the interior is great BUT it is not a 911. I replaced a 996 with one and the love affair lasted 6 or so months only. In watches terms... its like wanting a Rolex Sub and gettin a Tudor (pls no hate mail ). The 911 is all in house car (like the Rolex Sub) while the 987C has a VW/Audi sourced engine (just like the Tudor ETA).
Both grreat but if you were after the Full Monty, well, you'll be missing something and wishing you had done otherwise.
Plus it suffers the same fate the Ferrari Dino had in the '70s. At that price point I would rather get a 1996 993 (stay away of the 95).
Anyway those are my cliff notes on the ownership of one, hope it helps. If you want one you will be very very happy bu if you really want a 911 then you wont.

[Rsvrider]

Originally Posted by Esexx

During my research for my first 911 I was trying to avoid the 996. I read a lot and spoke with mechanics and owners. IMHO, IMSB failure is a known problem and does happen but not as often as the stories say on the net. I think of it as a plane crash, doesn't happen often but when it does hundreds of people are effected. In the case of a 996 it equates to a $15k to $20k new engine.

I had a budget and finally bought a 996 C2 cab. I figure buying a 996 around $28k and spending $4k on IMS/Clutch/RMS/Water Pump/etc would make it a $33k p-car. A stripped down mid year 997 (early year 997's still had IMS problems) in descent condition were going for well over $35k and the same for a turbo 996.

993, if I could find one were going towards $39k. (my next car)

I wanted a daily driver and that is what I got in my budget. I could not be happier.

Just be patient, don't get emotional over a car when shopping and the right p-car will find you!

This is very smart advice and if you go this route I see no issues with buying a 996. I did the same, my 996 developed a small RMS leak and when I had it fixed hey went ahead and upgraded the brace for the intermediate shaft. The water pump I learned the hard way, walking to my car I saw a puddle. Gave me a heart attack! Though it was the engine nd tht it had exploded!
Once those 3 things got orated out the car was a joy o own ( no more worries on the back of your mind). That's hen the mods started along with the fun!

Btw what a great video!

[kayin]

I agree that the 993 is the best of the 'old' 911's but if you find the age or the cost daunting have you considered a cayman ?

911 Looks, 911 capabilities and a much newer car for a fraction of 911 money (at least that is true in the UK but suspect it is also the case in U.S.)

[topgear]

Originally Posted by kayin

I agree that the 993 is the best of the 'old' 911's but if you find the age or the cost daunting have you considered a cayman ?

911 Looks, 911 capabilities and a much newer car for a fraction of 911 money (at least that is true in the UK but suspect it is also the case in U.S.)

You hit the bull's eye
the same reason why I find Cayman to be a very attractive alternative

[subtona]

more great thoughts, thanks so much...

for me the car was always the 911 (talking about a nearly a 40 year dream), and as nice as the cayman is, there is zero chance it will satisfy my desire.

i see the 996 is becoming a bit more clear to me... 3 issues that need to be taken care of and all should be good?

if i understand correctly the 993 is air cooled and the 996 is liquid cooled?

Originally Posted by Rsvrider

...(hate the new stupid names Porsche keeps givng the new generation cars).

... I would rather get a 1996 993 (stay away of the 95)...

.

was there an issue with the '95 993?

the names are really confusing me vs if it was just 911 different model year and done.

[Rsvrider]

Originally Posted by subtona

more great thoughts, thanks so much...

for me the car was always the 911 (talking about a nearly a 40 year dream), and as nice as the cayman is, there is zero chance it will satisfy my desire.

i see the 996 is becoming a bit more clear to me... 3 issues that need to be taken care of and all should be good?

if i understand correctly the 993 is air cooled and the 996 is liquid cooled?



was there an issue with the '95 993?

the names are really confusing me vs if it was just 911 different model year and done.

You are correct w regards to the 996 (1st water cooled 911) the 993 is air cooled and the last in the 911 line. The 95 has OBD 1 electronics ( good if you live in CA) the 96 on has OBD2 PLUS Varioram which allows it to breath better, rev faster and be torquier at low speeds. From 96 on you can also get naturally aspirated Turbo bodied cars with Turbo suspension and brakes plus the amazing seats!

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Rsvrider

You are correct w regards to the 996 (1st water cooled 911) the 993 is air cooled and the last in the 911 line. The 95 has OBD 1 electronics ( good if you live in CA) the 96 on has OBD2 PLUS Varioram which allows it to breath better, rev faster and be torquier at low speeds. From 96 on you can also get naturally aspirated Turbo bodied cars with Turbo suspension and brakes plus the amazing seats!

thank you...

amazing seats sound nice

kind of leaning toward the air cooled but flexible ... might they have issues in heavy traffic on a hot day w overheating?

[Rsvrider]

Originally Posted by subtona

thank you...

amazing seats sound nice

kind of leaning toward the air cooled but flexible ... might they have issues in heavy traffic on a hot day w overheating?

No they wouldn't over heat. I live in Dallas, today's temp will reach 106 and sometimes my commute takes 1 hr for what should be a 20 minute ride. Yes, bumper to bumper.
Think of it this way too, the air cooled boxer engine deigned by Dr Porsche was commissioned by Hitler to be used in the invasion of Africa along other uses. Fantastic flexible design anywhere from 4 cylinders to 6 cylinders. Used by war machines as well as for the "people's car". Great engine, no water to freeze and the opposed cylinders stay cool bc of the nature of the design.
Even though there is no wter radiator on the air cooled cars there is an oil radiator. Most have it mounted up front and that is enough to keep the temp in check.

[towernick]

What are people's thoughts on the tiptronic versions. I am NOT looking to start a manual vs. tiptronic war here. I'm genuinly looking for opinions from people who own or have owned the tiptronic versions. I live in Los Angeles and I just don't see myself having very much fun with a stick in heavy LA traffic.

[Rsvrider]

Originally Posted by towernick

What are people's thoughts on the tiptronic versions. I am NOT looking to start a manual vs. tiptronic war here. I'm genuinly looking for opinions from people who own or have owned the tiptronic versions. I live in Los Angeles and I just don't see myself having very much fun with a stick in heavy LA traffic.

Damn, Im getting addicted to this thread! Tiptronic are NOT very good on older 911, reason why Posrche introduced the new double clutch (that really works well). The tip has a horrible delay. If I was to sit in traffic but wanted a Porsche I would go 928 GTS (its an auto).
But if it was me and budget was tight, I would buy or lease a cheap commuter car and a buy ether a 993 C2S OR a 1989 Speedster for fun times.

[towernick]

I was thinking like a 2006 tiptronic. Thoughts?

[Rsvrider]

Originally Posted by towernick

I was thinking like a 2006 tiptronic. Thoughts?

Find a 2nd Gen 997 (2009 or newer) with the PDK. The Tiptronic S on the previous models will drive you crazy. It is slow and NEVER shifts when you intend to. You will find yourself leaving it on auto.
The PDK is fast! Like a street bike fast.
Read this review on the Tip:
Buffered in manual mode
Running hard on back roads, though, you'll want to use the manual mode, and that's where the Tiptronic S disappoints.

Tapping the "+/-" buttons on the steering wheel is easy enough, but even in "sport," gearchanges never occur exactly when you think they will. Usually that means slower, and when you're trying to accelerate out of a corner, slower is frustrating.

Consider that our rear-drive 911 Cabriolet weighed less than 100 pounds more than the all-wheel-drive C4 coupe we tested last month but took seven-tenths of a second longer to hit 60 mph and sixth-tenths longer to pass the quarter-mile mark (13.7 versus 13.1). With the harder launch and faster shifts possible in a manual-shift Cabriolet, this gap would narrow considerably, even without the C4's wider track and tires.

More importantly, it just isn't as much fun with a computer mediating the emotional connection between you and your 911. Plus, Porsche makes you pay $3,400 extra to get the Tiptronic S.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Rsvrider

No they wouldn't over heat. I live in Dallas, today's temp will reach 106 and sometimes my commute takes 1 hr for what should be a 20 minute ride. Yes, bumper to bumper.
Think of it this way too, the air cooled boxer engine deigned by Dr Porsche was commissioned by Hitler to be used in the invasion of Africa along other uses. Fantastic flexible design anywhere from 4 cylinders to 6 cylinders. Used by war machines as well as for the "people's car". Great engine, no water to freeze and the opposed cylinders stay cool bc of the nature of the design.
Even though there is no wter radiator on the air cooled cars there is an oil radiator. Most have it mounted up front and that is enough to keep the temp in check.

thats good to hear... sounds just like my motorcycle, bmw boxer engine / oil cooled.

i have noooo interest in the tiptronic, i still use a manual film camera for the same reason, the delay in taking a photo caused by the computer stuff would ultimately cause me to miss my favorite pics. cant imagine blowing a critical shift due to computer lag

[iLLGT2]

My friend who has tons of cars/exotics had a 996 TT tip and now a 997 TT tip for daily driving...

The 996TT shifted pretty well, I always thought it was decent and didn't feel really laggy or anything... 997TT much better and shifts fast, take it for what it's worth! Not for me, but not bad

[Esexx]

IMHO, manual gear box is the way to go.

I love it, but alittle rough in stop and go traffic for long periods of time.

[G8RDPM]

Originally Posted by towernick

What are people's thoughts on the tiptronic versions. I am NOT looking to start a manual vs. tiptronic war here. I'm genuinly looking for opinions from people who own or have owned the tiptronic versions. I live in Los Angeles and I just don't see myself having very much fun with a stick in heavy LA traffic.

My prior car was a 2006 C2S,6 speed. It was great fun and I felt as one with the car always.
My current car(daily driver)is a 2008 Turbo Cab Tiptronic.
I truly miss the feeling if a manual transmission.
Obviously,I love the acceleration/torque of the Turbo,but there is something to be said for the connected feeling of having a third pedal.

Prior car.

[G8RDPM]

Originally Posted by towernick

I was thinking like a 2006 tiptronic. Thoughts?

PM me if you want to know about my 2006 which I recently sold.

[Esexx]

Originally Posted by towernick

I was thinking like a 2006 tiptronic. Thoughts?

anual in heavy traffic isn't much fun. Got stuck on Santa Monica Blvd and also Sunset and my foot was cramping up.

We must be in the same area. I am South of LAX so I don't always hit the downtown traffic.

[zama]

Not often I post a second time in one thread. I live in the most expensive car country going, but knowing how cheap the USA is for cars (even if you aawllll don't realise). You may well get into a 996 911 Turbo in the 30's, here those cars are closer to 100-150K. The 996 turbos don't have the issues of the non turbos due to a different block. It tends to be a massively under stressed vehicle as it has limitless power. Though I love manuals the turbo is one car that is equally if not better suited to auto as it has so much power at any rev range. They also are 4wd which will help in NY.

For those that defend the 996, and I am a porsche fan you are kidding. Supposedly "only 5%" have had massive engine collapse, so those without dramas are in the 95%. That would compare to less than .02% of any Porsche before. I know of two friends here in Australia with $30K engine out replacements. My wife wants a 996 Targa, which I will probably get here but I will be in absolute fear which I have never been with my other 3 Porsches current and past.

She would also be happy with a Hannibal Lecter Cayenne Turbo, but the reviews of the problems with these dont seem great either. I would still stick with a well maintained 993 or 964 era possible with all wheel drive given you live in NY. You must send us pics when you pull the trigger.

[towernick]

Originally Posted by Esexx

anual in heavy traffic isn't much fun. Got stuck on Santa Monica Blvd and also Sunset and my foot was cramping up.

We must be in the same area. I am South of LAX so I don't always hit the downtown traffic.

I'm a bit north of you in Santa Monica, but I drive Olympic every day to and from work, in Century City. I'm sure I would love the stick if Olympic was open all the time, but although it's rarely bumper to bumper, it's always full of cars.

[betrezra]

Back when I was half-serious about a 996TT my research on the p-car forms said to check the computer for over-revs on manual cars..... they claim you can look this up on the computer. 2nd hand from my pcar dream days.

If I were to get a p-car for under 50K.. it would be a 996TT X50 if I could swing it.... manual6 speed PPI, ext warranty.

GL.

Also if you like the project cars.... the lowest price 911's of the late 70's can be restored to be fun rides for "fairly" little dough.

[Ristretto]

Driven various models, easiest water-cooled one to drive is the 993 light clutch and very modern for its age. Also 993's have started to appreciate, DD and semi investment piece down the road.

[lavaman]

buy the best you can afford that is also the most well documented!


look at the Excellence buyer's guides that they publish at back of their magazine periodically

personally, I would say either a mid 80s 911SC, or the last of the air-cooled 911s, the 993. Stay away from Turbos unless you know the history. An excellent starting point would be the local Porsche club

[East Bay Rider]

I've long lusted after a 1987-1989 911.

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by Beek

993 all the way. The last real Porsche and best looking 911.

Freek . . . only if it is a 4S . . .

No just kidding I love the 993.

BTW last trip I visited Magnus Walker . . . if you talk about the classic Porsche 911 . . .

http://magnuswalker911.blogspot.com

Or have a look here when he is together with Jay Leno

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9lAsSZNVnU

Need to visit him again for a drive around LA . . .

Belgian chocolats do miracles . . . .

HAGONe

[Turbo23dog]

If you can live with just two seats, Don't exclude the Boxster from consideration. Test drive one from your closest Carmax and you may find your grail. Go for an S model model years 2002 and up.

Rich
1980 911SC
2000 Boxster S

[Rostami6]

I have had 9 911's over the course of the last 20 years. I bought my first one when I was 19. They have ranged from 1979 to 2009 models. Turbos and non turbos. Sock and modified. To me the 911 is the best built sport car in the history (just my personal opinion). I still would not be able to tell you which one was the best one (although I can tell you which was the least favorite one, my 1999 C2!) but I feel I can point you to the right direction. It all goes to what your budget is and how much you are willing to spend. I do agree with some of the above comments that the newer the 911 the better it will be. But that is only one of the factors. For example let's pick two model. A mid to late 80's Carrera 2 and a a 1994 3.6 turbo in the video from one of the above comments. They are both great cars but the price difference is significant. Also very different on the amount of money you have to spend on maintenance and regular wear items such as brakes and tires. (believe me, you will spend money on tires and brakes!) The point I am trying to make is that they are all great cars. Porsche has done a great job on creating a great sports car which could be driven as a daily driver no matter which model you pick. But your budget will determine which one is the "best one" for you. My advice is that if you want to truly enjoy your 911 to pick a number you are willing to spend, use about 60% to 75% on the car itself and use the rest in repairs and maintenance as you put miles on the car. This should hold true to anything over 5-6 years old. Anything newer is a different story. You should be able to spend more on the car and less on repairs and up keep. If your budget allows something newer, I would advise you to go with a certified one from a dealership. But one thing is for sure. No matter what year you get, you will enjoy the hell out of it. I hope this helps.

[lig]

Originally Posted by iLLGT2

Any thought on a Cayman S? FANTASTIC CAR!!!!!!!

Honestly speaking - the driving dynamics on a Cayman S are better than my 997 C2S. That is one part of the equation

If the rumored Cayman GT3 ever becomes reality - I might have to upgrade.

Here's my C2S...



I would love to have a 993 or an SC but then again - I'd love to have a bunch of 911s.

If I hit the Lotto - Singer here I come!

http://singervehicledesign.com/

OP - lots of good advice here. I love the idea of a well maintained, well loved air cooled 911 as a driver.

[BH13GMT]

Originally Posted by Ristretto

Driven various models, easiest water-cooled one to drive is the 993 light clutch and very modern for its age. Also 993's have started to appreciate, DD and semi investment piece down the road.

Agree on the prices increasing on 993's although I am pretty sure they are the last of the Air Cooled 911's.

On the Singer front have a watch of this, I so want one!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQ4hQSusjE