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loosch62 · 30 January 2008, 04:36 AM

Is a Rolex Daytona with the Zenith movemant that much better than a Daytona with the in house movement? thank you Loosch

CPTL · 31 January 2008, 02:54 AM

Not an expert, but your post deserves an answer.

The Zenith movement was just part of Daytona history. To say it's better or worse is too subjective.

The Zenith El Primero (EP400) movement is a proven chrono workhorse worthy of the Daytona, that's for sure. Since the Zenith movement only ran in the Daytona for two years (I think), they're fairly rare. Any premium you pay for a Zenith Daytona is related to rarity, not mechanical superiority.

The new in-house 4130 movement is nothing short of superb. Bo has declared it one of the ten best movements ever. (He claims that honor came from an official list, but I think it exists more-or-less within the confines of his adoration for his Cos.) Certainly it's a major step for the Daytona and Rolex, as the Daytona was the last outsourced movement in the Rolex collection.

So...better? That's for you to decide. Why do you ask?

Oh yeah. Welcome to TRF!!

JBat · 31 January 2008, 04:40 AM

Great response, Kevin, and welcome to TRF loosch.

padi56 · 31 January 2008, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPTL

Not an expert, but your post deserves an answer.

The Zenith movement was just part of Daytona history. To say it's better or worse is too subjective.

The Zenith El Primero (EP400) movement is a proven chrono workhorse worthy of the Daytona, that's for sure. Since the Zenith movement only ran in the Daytona for two years (I think), they're fairly rare. Any premium you pay for a Zenith Daytona is related to rarity, not mechanical superiority.

The new in-house 4130 movement is nothing short of superb. Bo has declared it one of the ten best movements ever. (He claims that honor came from an official list, but I think it exists more-or-less within the confines of his adoration for his Cos.) Certainly it's a major step for the Daytona and Rolex, as the Daytona was the last outsourced movement in the Rolex collection.

So...better? That's for you to decide. Why do you ask?

Oh yeah. Welcome to TRF!!

Well the Zenith movement was introduced around 1988/9 the Cal 4030 some say Rolex downgraded the movement when they put there own 28800 BPH escapement from its norm hi-beat 36000 BPH.Myself have a very high regard for the El-Primo movement and would say its one of the best chrono movements made,and its proved its self now over a several decades.While the Rolex cal 4130 introduced 2000 is a very fine excellent movement but in movement terms a relativity newcomer.Now IMO the SS Zenith powered ones will always be collectable,and will command higher price that its in-house brother. Quite ironic two of the most collectable and highest price Daytona's don't have a Rolex in-house movement as its engine.

GMTcrazy · 31 January 2008, 04:48 AM

I would go newer 4130 any day of the week. The people who try to sell you on the greatness of the Zenith, are usually the ones who are either selling one, or are justifying paying big dollars for one.

I have both. Zenith white dial, and new 4130 w/black dial.

I like them both for different reasons but....

I love the newer model w/much improved accuracy (my opinion) and longer power reserve.

GT

scottschoe · 31 January 2008, 04:52 AM

I'd say functionally, I'd take the 4130, but I much prefer the subdial layout of the Zenith

f16570 · 31 January 2008, 05:22 AM

Can someone post a side by side picture so we can see the difference on the face.
Thnaks in advance.

watchboy · 31 January 2008, 05:32 AM

First I would say Rolex did a great job by having its own in house movt for the newer Daytonas. Also I like the fatter markers on the newer DAYTONA compared to those with Zenith movt. No doubt Zenith is a solid movt but I do not think Rolex is not up to that standard to be on par or better than the Zenith's movt.

Yes the Zenith movt is like a collector's item these days. The price is higher than a new Rolex in house movt Daytona!

And they can be as old as 19-20 years old and cost more than a BNIB Daytona.

Well I will get a newer DAYTONA with Rolex in house movt anytime to a Zenith movt.

Cos I will never buy a MERCEDES SMART with a MITSUBISHI engine!

JMHO.

watchboy · 31 January 2008, 05:45 AM

Left is the Zenith movt, model # 16520 (second hand sub dial at 9 o'clock) and Right is the in house movt, model # 116520 (second hand sub dial at 6 o'clock).

loosch62 · 31 January 2008, 07:13 AM

Kevin, I am looking for a Daytona? My dad bought a Daytona in 1969 and i remember going to Orlando to pick it up when I was a little kid. He bought 3 rolexs for my 2 brothers and myself. my older brother got the Daytona and the other got a gmt. I got a two-tone date-just from 1952 thats never had a problem. and a gmt II and i want a daytona. Cliff

scottschoe · 31 January 2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchboy

Cos I will never buy a MERCEDES SMART with a MITSUBISHI engine!

JMHO.

What about a Lotus with a Toyota engine?

watchboy · 31 January 2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottschoe

What about a Lotus with a Toyota engine?

Oops! I forgot that too. No I will never buy that too, so is a Jag with Ford engine.

scottschoe · 31 January 2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchboy

Oops! I forgot that too. No I will never buy that too, so is a Jag with Ford engine.

Not to go off-topic, but I had the chance to drive one of these around (with some BPU), and I was *fully* impressed. It's perfect for the track.

watchboy · 31 January 2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottschoe

Not to go off-topic, but I had the chance to drive one of these around (with some BPU), and I was *fully* impressed. It's perfect for the track.

OT too: Yes the Lotus is a very fast car with good track timings.

But still I prefer something with all original from the same maker.

Cos I do not like others telling me: "Oh that fast Lotus, isn't that with a TOYOTA engine?"

SPACE-DWELLER · 31 January 2008, 09:04 AM

It's a tie IMHO. Both movts. are equally good.

Rolex heavily modified the Zenith E.P. movt., and besides other modifications, Rolex altered the bpH (beats per hour) count from 36,000 to 28,800 (from 5 to 4 Hertz). Only about half of the parts of the original Zenith E.P. movt. were untouched after the modification.

Among many other things, there are significant differences in the power reserve of the two watches but basically both are top notch chronograph movts.

You can read more in my Review of the SS Daytona (Ref. 116520).

Alcan · 31 January 2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

basically both are top notch chronograph movts.

Agree 100%.

haakon59 · 31 January 2008, 09:48 AM

The difference is: Zenith is older (i.e., proven)
Zenith has chronograph movements with more complications.

However: the 4130 Rolex has been doing well and seems to be trouble free and reliable.

The only reason I would pick the Daytona with the Zenith movement is because I wanted to include Daytonas with movements from both manufacturers. Otherwise, I would say they seem comparable.

CPTL · 31 January 2008, 03:45 PM

Would y'all say that the new Parachrom spring is a significant enough improvement to set the 4130 apart from the EP400? The report of the consistency and resiliency of the metal is pretty amazing, and members here have reported remarkable precision.

Stratton · 31 January 2008, 04:25 PM

The Rolex movement also hacks whereas the Zenith does not.

Earl Camembert · 31 January 2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stratton

The Rolex movement also hacks whereas the Zenith does not.

The hacking feature now appears on $20 Asian movements.

Orchi · 31 January 2008, 06:19 PM

Err buddies...on the Zenith Cal. movement or older non-hacking Rolex Cal. movements...one can control the crown to temporarily stop the second hand from moving forward...n one can control the same to have the second hand moving backwards temporarily also...

On movements with hacking feature...that won't be possible.

watchboy · 31 January 2008, 07:12 PM

Guys,

I just want to ask, until today is there any one complain about the Rolex in house movt in DAYTONAs?

No?

All those complication of a movt or a more simple movt, to me, do not make a difference as long as they do their job as chronograph and accurate as normal time.

But I will never pay for a watch that is older and costs more than a new watch, collector's item or not. Like the Red Submariner, Matted dial(no lume), folded bracelet, no sapphire crystal, rated 200m WR.... compared to the new Sub which has better features and built. Well you can say it is a collector's item for the Red Sub, but collector's item comes with a BIGGER price tag.

It is nice to drive a classic vintage Mercedes for eg, but it cannot compared to the current models for technologies and material used. And when it comes to service and parts, probably the parts of the vintage are harder to find, even if they are found, probably they cost more than the current parts due to rarity or maybe delivery costs involved for eg.

And I often prefer a watch with its own in house movt.

Just my 2 cents.

30 January 2008, 04:36 AM	#1
loosch62 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: arizona Posts: 4	Zenith Movement Is a Rolex Daytona with the Zenith movemant that much better than a Daytona with the in house movement? thank you Loosch

31 January 2008, 04:52 AM	#6
scottschoe "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: CA Posts: 3,295	I'd say functionally, I'd take the 4130, but I much prefer the subdial layout of the Zenith __________________ __________________

31 January 2008, 05:22 AM	#7
f16570 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Real Name: F Location: Scotland Watch: Exp II White Face Posts: 4,272	Can someone post a side by side picture so we can see the difference on the face. Thnaks in advance. __________________ Why have what's new when you have what's best. f

31 January 2008, 09:04 AM	#15
SPACE-DWELLER "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Real Name: Bo Location: Denmark Watch: Rolex, of course! Posts: 22,436	It's a tie IMHO. Both movts. are equally good. Rolex heavily modified the Zenith E.P. movt., and besides other modifications, Rolex altered the bpH (beats per hour) count from 36,000 to 28,800 (from 5 to 4 Hertz). Only about half of the parts of the original Zenith E.P. movt. were untouched after the modification. Among many other things, there are significant differences in the power reserve of the two watches but basically both are top notch chronograph movts. You can read more in my Review of the SS Daytona (Ref. 116520). __________________ With kind regards, Bo LocTite 221: The Taming Of The Screw...

31 January 2008, 02:54 AM	#2
CPTL "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Real Name: Kevin Location: Texas on my mind Watch: Sub Date; SS/WG DJ Posts: 2,445	Not an expert, but your post deserves an answer. The Zenith movement was just part of Daytona history. To say it's better or worse is too subjective. The Zenith El Primero (EP400) movement is a proven chrono workhorse worthy of the Daytona, that's for sure. Since the Zenith movement only ran in the Daytona for two years (I think), they're fairly rare. Any premium you pay for a Zenith Daytona is related to rarity, not mechanical superiority. The new in-house 4130 movement is nothing short of superb. Bo has declared it one of the ten best movements ever. (He claims that honor came from an official list, but I think it exists more-or-less within the confines of his adoration for his Cos.) Certainly it's a major step for the Daytona and Rolex, as the Daytona was the last outsourced movement in the Rolex collection. So...better? That's for you to decide. Why do you ask? Oh yeah. Welcome to TRF!!

31 January 2008, 04:40 AM	#3
JBat "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Real Name: John Location: Washington Watch: 16710, 16610, DJ Posts: 7,329	Great response, Kevin, and welcome to TRF loosch.

31 January 2008, 04:48 AM	#5
GMTcrazy Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Makati/FL Posts: 301	I would go newer 4130 any day of the week. The people who try to sell you on the greatness of the Zenith, are usually the ones who are either selling one, or are justifying paying big dollars for one. I have both. Zenith white dial, and new 4130 w/black dial. I like them both for different reasons but.... I love the newer model w/much improved accuracy (my opinion) and longer power reserve. GT

31 January 2008, 05:32 AM	#8
watchboy "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Real Name: Jacky Location: Watch World Posts: 244	First I would say Rolex did a great job by having its own in house movt for the newer Daytonas. Also I like the fatter markers on the newer DAYTONA compared to those with Zenith movt. No doubt Zenith is a solid movt but I do not think Rolex is not up to that standard to be on par or better than the Zenith's movt. Yes the Zenith movt is like a collector's item these days. The price is higher than a new Rolex in house movt Daytona! And they can be as old as 19-20 years old and cost more than a BNIB Daytona. Well I will get a newer DAYTONA with Rolex in house movt anytime to a Zenith movt. Cos I will never buy a MERCEDES SMART with a MITSUBISHI engine! JMHO.

31 January 2008, 05:45 AM	#9
watchboy "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Real Name: Jacky Location: Watch World Posts: 244	Left is the Zenith movt, model # 16520 (second hand sub dial at 9 o'clock) and Right is the in house movt, model # 116520 (second hand sub dial at 6 o'clock).

31 January 2008, 07:13 AM	#10
loosch62 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: arizona Posts: 4	Kevin, I am looking for a Daytona? My dad bought a Daytona in 1969 and i remember going to Orlando to pick it up when I was a little kid. He bought 3 rolexs for my 2 brothers and myself. my older brother got the Daytona and the other got a gmt. I got a two-tone date-just from 1952 thats never had a problem. and a gmt II and i want a daytona. Cliff

31 January 2008, 09:48 AM	#17
haakon59 "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,571	The difference is: Zenith is older (i.e., proven) Zenith has chronograph movements with more complications. However: the 4130 Rolex has been doing well and seems to be trouble free and reliable. The only reason I would pick the Daytona with the Zenith movement is because I wanted to include Daytonas with movements from both manufacturers. Otherwise, I would say they seem comparable.

31 January 2008, 03:45 PM	#18
CPTL "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Real Name: Kevin Location: Texas on my mind Watch: Sub Date; SS/WG DJ Posts: 2,445	Would y'all say that the new Parachrom spring is a significant enough improvement to set the 4130 apart from the EP400? The report of the consistency and resiliency of the metal is pretty amazing, and members here have reported remarkable precision.

31 January 2008, 04:25 PM	#19
Stratton "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: UK Posts: 429	The Rolex movement also hacks whereas the Zenith does not.

31 January 2008, 06:19 PM	#21
Orchi Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Malaysia Posts: 2,934	Err buddies...on the Zenith Cal. movement or older non-hacking Rolex Cal. movements...one can control the crown to temporarily stop the second hand from moving forward...n one can control the same to have the second hand moving backwards temporarily also... On movements with hacking feature...that won't be possible.

31 January 2008, 07:12 PM	#22
watchboy "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Real Name: Jacky Location: Watch World Posts: 244	Guys, I just want to ask, until today is there any one complain about the Rolex in house movt in DAYTONAs? No? All those complication of a movt or a more simple movt, to me, do not make a difference as long as they do their job as chronograph and accurate as normal time. But I will never pay for a watch that is older and costs more than a new watch, collector's item or not. Like the Red Submariner, Matted dial(no lume), folded bracelet, no sapphire crystal, rated 200m WR.... compared to the new Sub which has better features and built. Well you can say it is a collector's item for the Red Sub, but collector's item comes with a BIGGER price tag. It is nice to drive a classic vintage Mercedes for eg, but it cannot compared to the current models for technologies and material used. And when it comes to service and parts, probably the parts of the vintage are harder to find, even if they are found, probably they cost more than the current parts due to rarity or maybe delivery costs involved for eg. And I often prefer a watch with its own in house movt. Just my 2 cents.

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