LV the real deal...?

[ChaseTRF]

Looking at a 16610LV and not being a Sub guy wanted to find out the obvious tells to authenticity, or not as the case may be. I came across a seemingly well written article but since that too came from the net I'd like to get some independant verification of it as well. Here is the key snippet from it I am questioning.

5. LV dial. The LV is the ONLY Submariner where at the 6 o'clock position, the words SWISS MADE span and touch 5 minute markers. This is known as a "5 ticks" dial. ALL other Submariners have their words SWISS MADE touch only 3 minute markers, thus they are known as having 3 tick dials. If you see an LV for sale with a "3 tick" dial, it is a fake. If you see a standard SS Submariner 16610 model (non LV) that has a 5 tick dial, it is a fake. Update: I am seeing more and more genuine "3 tick" LV's showing up on the internet at genuine Rolex watch forums. Either Rolex is now producing 3 tick LV's or people who have the Swiss Grade 1 fakes are passing them off as real. It's difficult to know. Buying a genuine LV from anyone other than an Authorized (Rolex) Dealer is extremely risky.

The watch in question does in fact have this 'three ticks' dial so it would seem that to instantly prove it to be a fake if the article is to be trusted, BUT looking around a bit further I've found listings for other 'three tick' dials from reputable sellers like DavidSW, whom I have no reason not to trust implicitly.

I'd really like some positive yay or nay on this if possible.

I'll add a few photos of the watch in question in a moment. The other issue on it I see is the brushing on the lugs. It could just be the lighting, but it looks poorly done and 'heavier' that typical of Rolex, and certainly WAY heavier than that of my Explorer II or even my Tudors.


Quick edit: that snippet is from an ebay guide to spotting fake Subs on their site.

[ChaseTRF]

I don't want to post the gentlemans ad publicly as I am not accusing him of anything and don't want to cause any issues where there may well not be one, but here are some photos from his listing.

[crowncollection]

Watch looks ok

[TimeToGo]

While the pictures look good, and you are not posting the seller's post, it is easy to comment on the pictures and not the seller..

[ChaseTRF]

Stopped by one of my preferred AD's today and he happened t have a brand new LV that wasn't for sale and just part of the owners inventory/collection. It had the three ticks as well and clearly that one was legit so I'm much less concerned about this now.

The LV was stunning too, which is nice to at least be able to have a few minutes wrist time with one before an online transaction. Especially as I don't particularly care for subs. Strange I know.

Appreciate the input guys. Thanks

[iWally]

Definitely Genuine!

[My Kids Dad]

Occam's Razor applies here.

In short, the 'snippet' you relied upon as fact is just plain wrong. (At least it's wrong today.) There are a number of dial variations that apply to the 16610LV.

Check THIS link for a bit more detailed info.

[GradyPhilpott]

The watch in those photos appears to be legitimate.

Nothing unusual pops out at all.

[Gaijin]

What are your concerns if you don't mind me asking? Looks good.

[ChaseTRF]

Originally Posted by My Kids Dad

Occam's Razor applies here.

In short, the 'snippet' you relied upon as fact is just plain wrong. (At least it's wrong today.) There are a number of dial variations that apply to the 16610LV.

Check THIS link for a bit more detailed info.

That does read a credible article, thanks. It conflicts with the one I found earlier, but given my conversation with my AD I tend to think the one in your link the more accurate. It's been soeculated that they used up certain cases and dials for these watches and that would easily explain the variances in offerings from Rolex. I've also found information that suggests this is the most faked Modern Rolex so I will still proceed with caution. As it goes, buy the seller not the watch.

To the fellow just above, the concerns were the dial and case, and discrepancies in it with the article on fake LVs I had posted earlier. In any case this particular deal isn't going through so it is a moot point for this purchase; however I've learned a great amount about the piece in which to reference for future considerations.

[djemmtee]

looks like the real mccoy...

[zhleez]

Just curious where did you find the misleading snippet from? Could you share the link?

Originally Posted by ChaseTRF

That does read a credible article, thanks. It conflicts with the one I found earlier, but given my conversation with my AD I tend to think the one in your link the more accurate. It's been soeculated that they used up certain cases and dials for these watches and that would easily explain the variances in offerings from Rolex. I've also found information that suggests this is the most faked Modern Rolex so I will still proceed with caution. As it goes, buy the seller not the watch.

To the fellow just above, the concerns were the dial and case, and discrepancies in it with the article on fake LVs I had posted earlier. In any case this particular deal isn't going through so it is a moot point for this purchase; however I've learned a great amount about the piece in which to reference for future considerations.

[Andad]

It's an 'M' and the same dial as mine.

There is to much false information floating around on the web IMO.

[Gaijin]

My M is three ticks also. 100% genuine.

[ChaseTRF]

Originally Posted by zhleez

Just curious where did you find the misleading snippet from? Could you share the link?

It is an article on ebay about spotting fake LV's for sale.

http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-To-Ident...3597900/g.html

Complete article:

The Submariner is the most popular Rolex replica watch on the internet. It is often difficult these days to spot as a fake. The best quality fakes are also called Swiss Grade 1's and are so good, a secondary kind of scam marker has developed on eBay and other auction web sites. Swiss Grade 1 Rolex reproductions are auctioned off every week as genuine watches to those buyers who cannot believe their good fortune at running into a once in a life time super deal on a genuine Rolex watch. What those buyers find out the hard way is that the "deal of a life time" comes around every week on eBay!

Here is what you need to know to help spot a fake Rolex Submariner; but sometimes it's very difficult!

1. The bezel on a genuine Submariner turns only in one direction: counter clockwise. Fakes often turn in both directions or in other words, they are bi-directional. All high quality fake Swiss Grade 1's are correct in this feature. So even if the bezel turns in the correct direction, this doesn't mean it's a genuine Submariner.

2. Bezel clicks. It takes 120 'clicks' to make a full circle on a genuine Submariner. Fakes often fail to copy this feature correctly. Quick test: count the clicks for a quarter of a turn. You should count 30 clicks. 30 x 4 == 120 just like a real one. So even if the bezel makes a 120 clicks, this doesn't mean it's a real Submariner.

3. Movement inside. All Swiss Grade 1 Rolex replicas have an ETA movement inside. These are 25 jewels but many replica web scams tell you they are 27 jewels. They are not because ETA does not make a 27 jewel mechanical movement. The ETA does a beautiful job at replicating the second hand sweep of the genuine Rolex movement. It used to be this was a big clue as to whether or not a Rolex was real or not. You can no longer count on it. So even if the second hand "sweeps smoothly" to the naked eye, it is really quickly moving 8 times per second, just like on a real Rolex. Cheaper movements (non ETA) in the Submariner replicas are often still difficult to determine what kind of movement is inside based on watching the second hand sweep.

4. The 50th Anniversary Submariner with the green bezel insert. This is one of the most popular Submariners and is one of the most copied. The biggest flaw when looking at a genuine 50th Submariner (known as a "Greenie" due to the green bezel insert color or also known as the LV) is to check the case for lug holes. Rolex stopped making lug holes on their Submariner cases before they started to make the LV. Some replicas are made with the old style cases. So if you see someone selling an LV as genuine and it has lug holes...better run away as fast as you can.

5. LV dial. The LV is the ONLY Submariner where at the 6 o'clock position, the words SWISS MADE span and touch 5 minute markers. This is known as a "5 ticks" dial. ALL other Submariners have their words SWISS MADE touch only 3 minute markers, thus they are known as having 3 tick dials. If you see an LV for sale with a "3 tick" dial, it is a fake. If you see a standard SS Submariner 16610 model (non LV) that has a 5 tick dial, it is a fake. Update: I am seeing more and more genuine "3 tick" LV's showing up on the internet at genuine Rolex watch forums. Either Rolex is now producing 3 tick LV's or people who have the Swiss Grade 1 fakes are passing them off as real. It's difficult to know. Buying a genuine LV from anyone other than an Authorized (Rolex) Dealer is extremely risky.

6. LV Submariner. The LV uses the new date font with the 'closed' 6 and 9 numbers. If you see an LV for sale that has the older style open 6 and 9 it is a fake.

7. LV Submariner. The LV uses what Rolex calls the Maxi Dial. It is the only Submariner using it. Along with this Maxi Dial, on the LV, are what is called the "Fat Hands". The LV is the only Submariner using hour and minute hands that are 'fatter' than the hands normally seen on all of the other Rolex Submariners. Sometimes you will see an LV for sale that does not have the Fat Hands. Run away as fast as you can!

In summary.

Other than the LV differences which I have mentioned, it can be almost impossible to spot a fake Swiss Grade 1 Rolex Submariner. The only way to know for sure is to take the watch into an Rolex authorized dealer or other high end watch shop and have them remove the case back and see what kind of movement is inside. That's the only way to know for sure. The Two Tone Blue dial Submariners are a classic Rolex and are all but impossible to visually verify if one is real or not. Same for the Stainless Steel (SS) Black dial classic model 16610. You may not be able to tell a real one from a fake one unless you have the back removed and check the movement inside. If you're going to try and buy a used Rolex Submariner on the internet, it is critical that you know who you are buying from.

[ChaseTRF]

Originally Posted by directioneng

There is to much false information floating around on the web IMO.

Absolutely. That was in my first sentence of the original post, hence my suspicion of even the article on fakes. Practically anything found online needs some sort of independant verification. It is unfortunate, but it is what it is I suppose. Just have to take the best precautions one can.

[Roger1079]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

While the pictures look good, and you are not posting the seller's post, it is easy to comment on the pictures and not the seller..

This is my feeling as well. The watch is genuine. Now you need to make sure the seller appears to be the same.