New from AD or Used/New From Forum Seller?? Thoughts

[Swaggy P]

It's worth the extra money to go AD. You can reject the piece on the spot... You're buying from an actual dealer... My name is on the card... I can return to the store if I have any issues... No shipping issues... That's why I pay more.

And I'm all for saving money and will cut corners where I can, but again, if you're buying a Rolex, $1,500 or $2k shouldn't make or break you. If money really wasn't an issue, you wouldn't be shopping the internet when you could just take a drive down the street...

[elkaholic]

It's worth the extra money to go AD. You can reject the piece on the spot... You're buying from an actual dealer... My name is on the card... I can return to the store if I have any issues... No shipping issues... That's why I pay more.

And I'm all for saving money and will cut corners where I can, but again, if you're buying a Rolex, $1,500 or $2k shouldn't make or break you. If money really wasn't an issue, you wouldn't be shopping the internet when you could just take a drive down the street...

$1500 or $2k doesn't make or break me, I don't believe I ever said that it was a deal breaker financially to purchase from an AD, for me. I can't and won't speak for others on that topic.
If I had spent my hard earned money frivously without taking the time to get the most for it, especially when making transactions of several thousand dollars, I wouldn't be in the position of buying luxury items today.

It's a bit presumptuous for you to make a blanket judgement of others financial situations simply because they buy from trusted sellers here or other grey dealers on the Internet as opposed to an AD. Just my two cents.

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by elkaholic

$1500 or $2k doesn't make or break me, I don't believe I ever said that it was a deal breaker financially to purchase from an AD, for me. I can't and won't speak for others on that topic.
If I had spent my hard earned money frivously without taking the time to get the most for it, especially when making transactions of several thousand dollars, I wouldn't be in the position of buying luxury items today.

It's a bit presumptuous for you to make a blanket judgement of others financial situations simply because they buy from trusted sellers here or other grey dealers on the Internet as opposed to an AD. Just my two cents.

Agreed. It's not about the money. If it was, I wouldn't have as many Rolex watches as I posses. It's about feeling like I got a good deal. I can't stand the idea of throwing away an extra $2,000 because to me.....that's half of a pre-owned 16570. I'm always thinking about the next one.

[Swaggy P]

Originally Posted by elkaholic

$1500 or $2k doesn't make or break me, I don't believe I ever said that it was a deal breaker financially to purchase from an AD, for me. I can't and won't speak for others on that topic.
If I had spent my hard earned money frivously without taking the time to get the most for it, especially when making transactions of several thousand dollars, I wouldn't be in the position of buying luxury items today.

It's a bit presumptuous for you to make a blanket judgement of others financial situations simply because they buy from trusted sellers here or other grey dealers on the Internet as opposed to an AD. Just my two cents.

If money didn't matter, you wouldn't buy off the 'net. Period. It doesn't make you a bad person or trashy, however.

Who cares if I'm betting presumptuous about people's financial positions? If you have to resort to the internet to purchase a Rolex, it's because of money! Why else would you risk NOT buying from an AD? To be different? To not see the piece first? To possibly forgo a warranty? To have it lost or damaged in shopping? No! It's money. You "trusted seller" advocates can spin it any way you want and continue putting perfume on a pig, but unless you're buying a piece that's no longer available, you're buying off the 'net because of money...And that's ok.

[srvrf]

Originally Posted by Swaggy P

If money didn't matter, you wouldn't buy off the 'net. Period. It doesn't make you a bad person or trashy, however.



Who cares if I'm betting presumptuous about people's financial positions? If you have to resort to the internet to purchase a Rolex, it's because of money! Why else would you risk NOT buying from an AD? To be different? To not see the piece first? To possibly forgo a warranty? To have it lost or damaged in shopping? No! It's money. You "trusted seller" advocates can spin it any way you want and continue putting perfume on a pig, but unless you're buying a piece that's no longer available, you're buying off the 'net because of money...And that's ok.

Your comments are really inflammatory and derogatory. I don't "resort" to buying from the internet because I'm destitute and too cheap to buy from an AD, I buy primarily from Trusted Sellers because I value my time and my money.

We don't all live in big cities with ADs, so when I wanted a Vacheron, I could either get one from a Trusted Seller delivered right to my house (after all many expensive watches are shipped from the factories in Switzerland and Germany to ADs around the world every day without incident), or wait until the watch I want is in stock and then drive two hours plus Chicago traffic (which adds another hour on a good day) to the closest Vacheron AD to probably pay at least 10% more plus 8% Chicago tax. Not smart and takes all day.

The closest Rolex AD is an hour away but they played games with me and their Daytona waiting lists. I want no part of that. So my next option is again in Chicago. Should I make that same drive and pay the extra cost and taxes or "resort" to using the Internet?

So as I've mentioned before I don't have a problem with buying locally from an AD. But for those of us not located in a major city, it just isn't always feasible.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JadeRaven]

Originally Posted by srvrf

Your comments are really inflammatory and derogatory. I don't "resort" to buying from the internet because I'm destitute and too cheap to buy from an AD, I buy primarily from Trusted Sellers because I value my time and my money.

IMHO you're being a little touchy here.

Resort does not have to connote such a negative feeling.

Clearly you're not destitute; however buying from trusted sellers because you value your money is one in the same with being "too cheap" (your words) to buy from an AD. But as SwaggyP says, that's okay. It doesn't make you some sort of plebeian. Nor is the person paying a premium at the AD some sort of a sucker.

[Swaggy P]

Originally Posted by srvrf

Your comments are really inflammatory and derogatory. I don't "resort" to buying from the internet because I'm destitute and too cheap to buy from an AD, I buy primarily from Trusted Sellers because I value my time and my money.

We don't all live in big cities with ADs, so when I wanted a Vacheron, I could either get one from a Trusted Seller delivered right to my house (after all many expensive watches are shipped from the factories in Switzerland and Germany to ADs around the world every day without incident), or wait until the watch I want is in stock and then drive two hours plus Chicago traffic (which adds another hour on a good day) to the closest Vacheron AD to probably pay at least 10% more plus 8% Chicago tax. Not smart and takes all day.

The closest Rolex AD is an hour away but they played games with me and their Daytona waiting lists. I want no part of that. So my next option is again in Chicago. Should I make that same drive and pay the extra cost and taxes or "resort" to using the Internet?

So as I've mentioned before I don't have a problem with buying locally from an AD. But for those of us not located in a major city, it just isn't always feasible.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Time to call bullshit here... Nearest Rolex AD is in Chicago? Dude, I live outside of Detroit, and even we have AD's over an hour outside of the city. As a matter of fact, there may not even be a Rolex AD in Detroit city, for obvious reasons...lol

Nobody's saying your destitute, but there is a money issue, or shall I say, a "wealth" issue here. It's a matter of comfort, not who has more money. You may have MORE money than me, but LESS comfort spending it, thus making me "feel" wealthier than you. Money, in this instant, would be less of an issue for me than it is for you... Get it?

Just relax...It's not a dick measuring contest.

[JadeRaven]

I think if I was in a different situation where I had no local dealer, or if the only dealer around was particularly abrasive, I would be much more interested in dealing over the internet (like I do for practically everything else).

[Mr. K]

Trusted sellers are safe. ADs are safe.

I say buy from wherever you want and feel good about it.

If Rolex cared, they could do something about grey market. But they don't. Why? They probably don't care.

[danyvw]

Just want to add that plus saving a good amount of money buying from Trusted seller I've been treated by them way better than in AD where seller person doesn't know anything about the watch he is selling, attention is not good nor professional, waiting time is stupid, sales negotiations do not exist and availability is poor. Nothing of that occurs with TRF trusted sellers.

[AK797]

Let's have less talk about others personal wealth and affordability, we are all very privileged to own these luxury watches already so let's stay out of the mire and keep this forum classy and respectful.

[Progman2000]

I think this has more to do with people's comfort level purchasing on the internet than people are letting on. There are still people more comfortable with walking into a Merrill Lynch office and handing their money to a broker rather than logging onto eTrade and spending $10 to make the same exact transaction. I suspect these are the types more prone to go the AD route. Call it a comfort level thing or a generational thing - none of these other reasons make sense to me (the AD will clean my watch? FedEx might harm the watch in transit from the trusted seller? come on...).

Whatever makes you comfortable. I'm pretty sure having those people still walk into Merrill Lynch to pay a broker or to the AD to buy a watch helps me as a consumer so its all good.

[drakulie]

There is definitely an attitude on this forum of elitism and grandiosity here with those who buy from Trusted Sellers. I'm talking about the ones who want to shove in peoples faces how much they saved, how many watches they own, and how this is somehow a tool to measure their intelligence over those who choose to buy from an AD.

-We are so smart, and those who buy from AD are stupid.
-Look how much I saved.
-Trusted sellers are so smart they know the mysteries of the universe and workers at AD's dont' even know how to tie their shoes.
Yada, yada, yada.


Fact is, there is nothing smart about keeping "14" watches in shoe boxes., and there is nothing smart about not paying taxes.

There is a simple argument to be made that if you want to be smart and equate intelligence to the $1000 savings you got from a Trusted seller, then save the other $8000 or so you spent on a Rolex and buy a Swatch. And there is nothing noble about not paying taxes, so save the " I saved $500 not paying the taxes".

People place different value in different things. Some, put value in being able to walk in and out of an AD with the watch they purchased. Others put value in the money they kept in thier pocket. There is no right or wrong here, just different choices.

Remember, either way (AD or Trusted seller) you're not taking it with you when you are 6 foot under. (yes, even the "savings) Whatever route you took to get it, enjoy it while you are here.

[JadeRaven]

Originally Posted by drakulie

People place different value in different things. Some, put value in being able to walk in and out of an AD with the watch they purchased. Others put value in the money they kept in thier pocket. There is no right or wrong here, just different choices.

Yep!! Well said.

[srvrf]

Originally Posted by drakulie

There is definitely an attitude on this forum of elitism and grandiosity here with those who buy from Trusted Sellers. I'm talking about the ones who want to shove in peoples faces how much they saved, how many watches they own, and how this is somehow a tool to measure their intelligence over those who choose to buy from an AD.

-We are so smart, and those who buy from AD are stupid.
-Look how much I saved.
-Trusted sellers are so smart they know the mysteries of the universe and workers at AD's dont' even know how to tie their shoes.
Yada, yada, yada.


Fact is, there is nothing smart about keeping "14" watches in shoe boxes., and there is nothing smart about not paying taxes.

There is a simple argument to be made that if you want to be smart and equate intelligence to the $1000 savings you got from a Trusted seller, then save the other $8000 or so you spent on a Rolex and buy a Swatch. And there is nothing noble about not paying taxes, so save the " I saved $500 not paying the taxes".

People place different value in different things. Some, put value in being able to walk in and out of an AD with the watch they purchased. Others put value in the money they kept in thier pocket. There is no right or wrong here, just different choices.

Remember, either way (AD or Trusted seller) you're not taking it with you when you are 6 foot under. (yes, even the "savings) Whatever route you took to get it, enjoy it while you are here.

Shipping to avoid paying state taxes is something that occurs with ADs as well as TSs. Many ADs mention this to me as a benefit of buying out-of-state. There are many tax-reduction and tax-avoidance behaviors that we all engage in, so by saying those who utilize this aren't "noble" could be interpreted as having some of the exact elitism you're against.

I used to think it was all elitism when I saw all of the photos of the RMs/Rolexes/APs in front of the expensive car steering wheels or the "incoming" thread that mentioned the debate between two $30,000 watches. "They're just a bunch of show-offs" was my first reaction. But over time and by reading many posts, you know the people better and you can tell that it isn't showing off in a childish way. This is not a "Look what I've got Ha! Ha! Ha!" situation, it is excitement over getting something very nice. I've met and talked over the phone with a couple of people who have watch collections that make mine look like Timexes. But they have been the most down to Earth, nicest people I've met. WISs are a minority of the population. It is natural to talk to people about something you love and something that interests you. Watches get me excited and I could talk about them for hours. But conversations with my wife or any of my local friends just give me responses like "that's nice" or "you paid how much for that?" In the end, this whole forum is about sharing pictures and conversation about something we love (fine watches) with others who have a similar level of interest in watches.

But the bottom line is that if there were one clear-cut way to buy watches that worked for everyone, there'd only be that one way. Gray market and trusted sellers exist because they fulfill a need not met my ADs (or they wouldn't exist). The most staunch defenders of both ADs and TSs would have to agree that there are pros and cons of each source. How much someone weighs each factor determines the route they take. Really, we should be glad that there are choices (new, used, AD, gray, TS, member-to-member) because it brings more of us into this great hobby.

So to summarize for those who will later find this thread and skip the middle:

AD Benefits:
1. Genuine product with complete documentation including warranty card in your name
2. Repairs/adjustments often done for free on a walk-in basis
3. Will likely lead to greater discounts down the road from that AD
4. May lead to "preferred status" where they call you to let you know a watch you may like is in before it hits the shelves
5. You will try on the exact watch and if you like it can leave with it on your wrist

TS Benefits:
1. Lower cost
2. No state sales tax if out of state
3. Not limited to selection at local AD
4. May lead to greater discounts down the road from that TS
5. May lead to "preferred status" where the TS will call to let you know a watch you may like is in before it hits the web.
6. Watch can be bought from the comfort of your desk without travel, and then be delivered to your home/work, often overnight.

[Zx1100]

I have this argument with my wife whenever I'm about to make a purchase. I'm comfortable with puchasing from a trusted seller but she is always very hesitant. If the watch is for me then she will eventually give in and let me purchase from a trusted seller. If the watch is for her then it has to be purchased from the local AD.

Same with our cars. If for her she always gets new but for me I'm ok with a pre-owned and my last 3 cars have been pre-owned from out of state and no issues so far. I'm just more comfortable with the process I guess.

I believe it's also good to have a good relationship with a local AD so it works out for us.

[ericg]

Originally Posted by srvrf

Shipping to avoid paying state taxes is something that occurs with ADs as well as TSs. Many ADs mention this to me as a benefit of buying out-of-state. There are many tax-reduction and tax-avoidance behaviors that we all engage in, so by saying those who utilize this aren't "noble" could be interpreted as having some of the exact elitism you're against.

I used to think it was all elitism when I saw all of the photos of the RMs/Rolexes/APs in front of the expensive car steering wheels or the "incoming" thread that mentioned the debate between two $30,000 watches. "They're just a bunch of show-offs" was my first reaction. But over time and by reading many posts, you know the people better and you can tell that it isn't showing off in a childish way. This is not a "Look what I've got Ha! Ha! Ha!" situation, it is excitement over getting something very nice. I've met and talked over the phone with a couple of people who have watch collections that make mine look like Timexes. But they have been the most down to Earth, nicest people I've met. WISs are a minority of the population. It is natural to talk to people about something you love and something that interests you. Watches get me excited and I could talk about them for hours. But conversations with my wife or any of my local friends just give me responses like "that's nice" or "you paid how much for that?" In the end, this whole forum is about sharing pictures and conversation about something we love (fine watches) with others who have a similar level of interest in watches.

But the bottom line is that if there were one clear-cut way to buy watches that worked for everyone, there'd only be that one way. Gray market and trusted sellers exist because they fulfill a need not met my ADs (or they wouldn't exist). The most staunch defenders of both ADs and TSs would have to agree that there are pros and cons of each source. How much someone weighs each factor determines the route they take. Really, we should be glad that there are choices (new, used, AD, gray, TS, member-to-member) because it brings more of us into this great hobby.

So to summarize for those who will later find this thread and skip the middle:

AD Benefits:
1. Genuine product with complete documentation including warranty card in your name
2. Repairs/adjustments often done for free on a walk-in basis
3. Will likely lead to greater discounts down the road from that AD
4. May lead to "preferred status" where they call you to let you know a watch you may like is in before it hits the shelves
5. You will try on the exact watch and if you like it can leave with it on your wrist

TS Benefits:
1. Lower cost
2. No state sales tax if out of state
3. Not limited to selection at local AD
4. May lead to greater discounts down the road from that TS
5. May lead to "preferred status" where the TS will call to let you know a watch you may like is in before it hits the web.
6. Watch can be bought from the comfort of your desk without travel, and then be delivered to your home/work, often overnight.

Great post !!

[locutus49]

Good post. I bought my last Rolex from an AD because of the really good discount and out-of-state tax savings. But I have no problem buying from TSers. Both have benefits and downsides. Can't we all just get along?

Originally Posted by drakulie

There is definitely an attitude on this forum of elitism and grandiosity here with those who buy from Trusted Sellers. I'm talking about the ones who want to shove in peoples faces how much they saved, how many watches they own, and how this is somehow a tool to measure their intelligence over those who choose to buy from an AD.

-We are so smart, and those who buy from AD are stupid.
-Look how much I saved.
-Trusted sellers are so smart they know the mysteries of the universe and workers at AD's dont' even know how to tie their shoes.
Yada, yada, yada.


Fact is, there is nothing smart about keeping "14" watches in shoe boxes., and there is nothing smart about not paying taxes.

There is a simple argument to be made that if you want to be smart and equate intelligence to the $1000 savings you got from a Trusted seller, then save the other $8000 or so you spent on a Rolex and buy a Swatch. And there is nothing noble about not paying taxes, so save the " I saved $500 not paying the taxes".

People place different value in different things. Some, put value in being able to walk in and out of an AD with the watch they purchased. Others put value in the money they kept in thier pocket. There is no right or wrong here, just different choices.

Remember, either way (AD or Trusted seller) you're not taking it with you when you are 6 foot under. (yes, even the "savings) Whatever route you took to get it, enjoy it while you are here.

[Submariner2015]

Originally Posted by drakulie

There is a simple argument to be made that if you want to be smart and equate intelligence to the $1000 savings you got from a Trusted seller, then save the other $8000 or so you spent on a Rolex and buy a Swatch. And there is nothing noble about not paying taxes, so save the " I saved $500 not paying the taxes".

Nothing wrong with a Swatch...mine still runs pretty well

[Swaggy P]

I'm sorry if my language crossed the line. I do enjoy a healthy debate, as well...

[707soldier]

This thread is very heartwarming.
Freedom of choice is a great thing.

[rodrob59]

Like many here I bought my first new from an AD, partly for the experience, partly from ignorance. My new two from a trusted seller as any more will be. Buy the seller. Truer words were never spoken.

[chris975d]

I buy from my AD because of the friendship that's been formed through our mutual appreciation of watches. That friendship is priceless to me. Of course it helped that he discounted the first piece I bought from him substantially, and therefore earned my business because of that. From that grew the friendship, and as a happy side effect, even further discounting on each subsequent Rolex I've bought from him. When I can develop a friendship with a fellow watch nut, plus get prices on brand new watches that the trusted sellers on here can't even offer me a used piece for, why wouldn't I go AD for all my new purchases?

That being said, I've traded and sold plenty of times to some of the trusted sellers here. And they've all be flawless transactions. So I see nothing wrong with that route either.

[Rolex fan 61]

Well its getting heated on here.........just changing the subject slightly ladies and gents I was really impressed today at the AD when I attended to collect my BNIB explorer 2 polar white, he explained all about the warranty, checked the watch thoroughly, completed all the paperwork, warranty card etc, explained, demonstrated and set the watch time, and made several trips to remove the links on the bracelet to ensure it fitted perfectly. I was given a travelling wallet, issue number 2 of the rolex magazine, and an invite to their rolex evening in September where rolex will be demonstrating all their new watches which we can handle and try on etc, plus there will be free food and drinks. Just thought I would mention that this is the only rolex I own I dont have a collection!

[Clay]

To say that you will "always" get a better deal from a "private seller" vs and AD is simply incorrect...

And to say that people who purchase from an AD are, in some way wrong or stupid, is also incorrect, not to mention very impolite...

After doing this for some 30 plus years, I can say that a "Good Deal" (Should that be what you are after) can be had anywhere...

It depends on when you are buying, the watch you are looking for, and the seller you are dealing with.

Each purchase must be taken on it's own merits...

I recently purchased a 116600...

And before purchasing I shopped around...The FOR SALES section on various forums, ebay, etc, etc, etc...

I ended up buying the watch, BNIB, from my local AD...

Why...Because I received a better deal there, then anywhere else...

[chris975d]

Originally Posted by Clay

To say that you will "always" get a better deal from a "private seller" vs and AD is simply incorrect...

And to say that people who purchase from an AD are, in some way wrong or stupid, is also incorrect, not to mention very impolite...

After doing this for some 30 plus years, I can say that a "Good Deal" (Should that be what you are after) can be had anywhere...

It depends on when you are buying, the watch you are looking for, and the seller you are dealing with.

Each purchase must be taken on it's own merits...

I recently purchased a 116600...

And before purchasing I shopped around...The FOR SALES section on various forums, ebay, etc, etc, etc...

I ended up buying the watch, BNIB, from my local AD...

Why...Because I received a better deal there, then anywhere else...

Excellent post. I do get bothered by the posters who make blanket statements like "always buy from TRF trusted sellers for the best price". That may be the case a lot of times, but it's not always. Bottom line is, as you said, shop around each purchase.

[REDiesel]

I think the OP did it correctly. Lots of watches I want are discontinued no AD sale possible. On a new piece $500 is probably the max premium I'm willing to pay an AD over a grey seller.

[JadeRaven]

Originally Posted by Clay

To say that you will "always" get a better deal from a "private seller" vs and AD is simply incorrect...

And to say that people who purchase from an AD are, in some way wrong or stupid, is also incorrect, not to mention very impolite...

After doing this for some 30 plus years, I can say that a "Good Deal" (Should that be what you are after) can be had anywhere...

It depends on when you are buying, the watch you are looking for, and the seller you are dealing with.

Each purchase must be taken on it's own merits...

I recently purchased a 116600...

And before purchasing I shopped around...The FOR SALES section on various forums, ebay, etc, etc, etc...

I ended up buying the watch, BNIB, from my local AD...

Why...Because I received a better deal there, then anywhere else...

Originally Posted by chris975d

Excellent post. I do get bothered by the posters who make blanket statements like "always buy from TRF trusted sellers for the best price". That may be the case a lot of times, but it's not always. Bottom line is, as you said, shop around each purchase.

+1 agreed, excellent post.

After all, to suggest that a trusted seller will always have a better price than a dealer, when in fact the trusted seller is a middle man for an authorized dealer, is ludicrous.

I have noticed a large trend of many members on TRF bemoaning & besmirching those who choose to purchase from an AD in blanket form, as if they have some chip on their shoulder or otherwise something to prove.

The price advantage of a trusted seller is specific to an individual authorized dealer or group of dealers, and is thus anecdotal and not indicative of all or even a majority of ADs. If the trusted sellers were in fact some sort of wholesalers bypassing the rolex-dealer construct, then this position would bear more credence, but since at best a trusted seller can only offer the lowest price that a dealer can, taking this position as universal is absurd.

[danyvw]

Thats a pretty good deal but for me that I live in S Florida is impossible (I'm too far). Here we have only one AD (chain store) and it sells the 114060 not even one cent less than the MSRP $7500 plus 7% taxes is $8050 which is $1155 more than Bob's price and a couple of thousands more that waht you paid in Canada. That for me is a no brainer expense.

[Corsican]

New to this blog. Is there a list of trusted sellers on this site? Looking for a new Rolex GMT Master II Batman Steel Oyster 116710BLNR.