Rare Blueberry Gmt

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Danny83

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lukerott...ntiquorum-nyc/

Case is shot; way over-polished. I'd never buy a watch just because of an insert. A dial, yes, such as DRSD, red 1680, etc ... The dial and case are where the money is in this crazy hobby. Still, I'm sure there will be buyers out there.

[AWS]

Q and John, great looking examples!

[PoderEsBueno]

Originally Posted by AWS

Q and John, great looking examples!

X 2 - Loving them

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by AWS

Q and John, great looking examples!

Originally Posted by PoderEsBueno

X 2 - Loving them

Thanks!

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by swish77

Case is shot; way over-polished. I'd never buy a watch just because of an insert. A dial, yes, such as DRSD, red 1680, etc ... The dial and case are where the money is in this crazy hobby. Still, I'm sure there will be buyers out there.

i think that blueberry GMT with the highly polished case looks awesome and if i could afford it i would have it for sure !!

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by Danny83

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lukerott...ntiquorum-nyc/

Antiquorum redefines the term "all-original." The hands don't appear to be original to the piece, unless they were re-lumed or bleached to get rid of moisture staining.

[Beaumont Miller II]

Allan, Q, PEB, and Wesley thanks for the kind words. Enjoy your day.

[Beaumont Miller II]

Sam thanks for the kind words. I got really lucky on this one.

[Kingface66]

Just to be clear, does the piece in the auction guarantee to have an authentic blue insert, or that the watch is guaranteed to have originally come with a blue insert? If it's the latter, how can that be proven?
In other words, is it that simple for any period-correct GMT with a real (albeit rare) Rolex blue insert to be passed off as "all original"?

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Just to be clear, does the piece in the auction guarantee to have an authentic blue insert, or that the watch is guaranteed to have originally come with a blue insert? If it's the latter, how can that be proven?
In other words, is it that simple for any period-correct GMT with a real (albeit rare) Rolex blue insert to be passed off as "all original"?

I'm no expert, but I think it's easier to pass off an insert than the red hand.

From what I've picked up from collectors and experts, the red hand luminous patina should be a relatively close match to the luminous material on the dial and the luminous material on the other hands, and the texture of the luminous material should be similar all around.

Then there are the serial ranges where these are often found. For radial Blueberry I believe it is generally 5.13 million range, though I don't know if there are other serial ranges for radial and for other variations.

Again, not an expert, but that's what I've picked up on them so far. If anything is incorrect, or I flubbed any details, I would love to know!

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Just to be clear, does the piece in the auction guarantee to have an authentic blue insert, or that the watch is guaranteed to have originally come with a blue insert? If it's the latter, how can that be proven?
In other words, is it that simple for any period-correct GMT with a real (albeit rare) Rolex blue insert to be passed off as "all original"?

99% of these current blueberry's (as its been termed) didn't leave the Rolex factory in the configuration you now see them in. For me personally the blueberry is a cool looking watch that Rolex should have made. I have never seen an original GMT come with this insert unless it was a special order military version. Most if not all of these blue inserts that are out there came from the Rolex service center as they had them in stock for years. The all red hand I have only found myself mostly in mk2 dials. Original? Authentic? A Rolex watch with authentic parts is my answer.

[springer]

Originally Posted by greekbum

99% of these current blueberry's (as its been termed) didn't leave the Rolex factory in the configuration you now see them in. For me personally the blueberry is a cool looking watch that Rolex should have made. I have never seen an original GMT come with this insert unless it was a special order military version. Most if not all of these blue inserts that are out there came from the Rolex service center as they had them in stock for years. The all red hand I have only found myself mostly in mk2 dials. Original? Authentic? A Rolex watch with authentic parts is my answer.

X2 Nick. I love seeing these Mark IV and V dial GMTs with the all-red hand. . . it always makes me chuckle. It is new phenomena of late, ever since the red hands have become a hot commodity for collectors.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by springer

X2 Nick. I love seeing these Mark IV and V dial GMTs with the all-red hand. . . it always makes me chuckle. It is new phenomena of late, ever since the red hands have become a hot commodity for collectors.

What is the prevailing theory as to why the all red hand was made, if they weren't originally used in watches coming out of factory?

By the way, I think the all blue insert is very cool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[springer]

Originally Posted by southtexas

What is the prevailing theory as to why the all red hand was made, if they weren't originally used in watches coming out of factory?

By the way, I think the all blue insert is very cool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Robby, that topic has been discussed here several times and also on the other Rolex vintage forum...big thread there on it. Nothing magical or mystical about the all-red hand, the consensus seems to be someone got carried away while they were being colored - instead of a red a shaft, the whole 24-hour hand was coated red. Additionally, I've only seen them on the early dials like Greekbum mentioned in his post.

Below is a stash of hands purchased from a retired watchmaker...notice any "red" hands in that pile? The second photo is the top section of the same photo that has been cropped. (The photo is a couple years old now.)

[skprd13]

Hey Ken let's see your sweet Blueberry! I know she is a beauty!

[greekbum]

The all red hand did come on watches from the factory. I personally have only found them in the wild with mk2 dials but others experience may differ. Btw there is an all blue hand also for the 1675.

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by greekbum

Btw there is an all blue hand also for the 1675.

So funny. I saw this on instagram earlier today. I have never seen a blue hand. What is the story behind them?

[waiting]

Love the blueberry, so different compared to other 1675s.

[omitohud]

Since we r on the topic, would any of u veterans care to elaborate on the copper insert with silver numbers like this one?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QueueCumber]

A lot of what is being said is hearsay. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but it is nice when some posters acknowledge that it is based on their experience and not necessarily on a definitive truth.

Here is an article on the all red hand from VRF: http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...+red+24+h+hand

One of the posters also mentions an "untouched" UAE radial/mini dial with an all red hand, but unfortunately the picture is no longer there. Again, hearsay, but there is bound to be a lot of hearsay with rarer pieces and parts without Rolex stepping in and making definitive statements. The more rare, the more open it becomes to mockery and ridicule. Rolex was also known for sometimes throwing older stock parts together with newer stock parts, and likewise collectors have been known to do the same, thus the quandary...

A lot of problems occur when people assume their experience is a truth that it is not amendable to new information. I have seen this issue a lot with Omega timepieces, where traditionally collector/experts adhered to a strict timeline for early Speedmaster submodel parts when it is seeming more likely lately that part distribution on submodels was not as strict as they originally imagined. Those older collectors are still having an exceedingly difficult time imagining a Speedmaster that doesn't adhere to very strict timelines and many dials were removed and replaced that were likely original to some pieces in order to adhere to this collector imposed timeline.

Not to say hearsay isn't important in the absence of Rolex releasing archive information. It's absolutely important and protects collectors.

I certainly don't know what the truth is with the Blueberry all red hand radial. Either way, original or just authentic, the Blueberry all red hand radial is a gorgeous piece...

[AWS]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

I certainly don't know what the truth is with the Blueberry all red hand radial. Either way, original or just authentic, the Blueberry all red hand radial is a gorgeous piece...

It sure is.

[oldLeatherNeck]

Originally Posted by AWS

It sure is.

I'd say enjoy them to those who're lucky to have found one.
I just LOL when seeing some small time traders here who professed to have bought and sold thousands (yeah, right!), and sound like the Rolex authority here on what's original and what's not.

Bull crap, they haven't held one in their hands let alone owning one.
Internet have surely created some instant noodle ,

Ah, I meant instant Rolex experts

[ahnets]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

I certainly don't know what the truth is with the Blueberry all red hand radial. Either way, original or just authentic, the Blueberry all red hand radial is a gorgeous piece...

Agree with everything you said. Keeping open mind is good. Here's my novice interpretation I originally posted here https://rolexvintageforum.com/viewto...f=13&t=58#p179

This is a fascinating, mysterious topic. The beautiful all red hand. Real, or not real?

To those who cite they are very real above, I would love some references to read up on. It occurs to me that if they have never appeared (is that 100% verifiably true statement?) in any official Rolex literature, then their existence can only be verified by original owners who purchased them with the all red hands. Even then, assuming that they evidently did not come with any special documentation, then we only have their 'eye witness' accounts to go by. That is to say, what if the hands were painted by whomever they purchased from.

As with all similarly debated vintage Rolex topics, one can only truly verify the facts if the horse (Rolex) decides to speak from its mouth. Were they special edition hands, factory accidents... or conjured up by fanciful dealers of the time... and no doubt fabricated by some fraudsters in modern years.

In my limited research, this source offers an interesting counter argument to those claiming authenticity and possibly a useful resource for those evaluating the acquisition of al all red hand: http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/thread63958.html

Regardless of their disputed existence, personally, I would love to own one :)







Seen in some official Japanese Rolex brochures, such as this one (page 6):



Source VRM

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by ahnets

Agree with everything you said. Keeping open mind is good. Here's my novice interpretation I originally posted here https://rolexvintageforum.com/viewto...f=13&t=58#p179

This is a fascinating, mysterious topic. The beautiful all red hand. Real, or not real?

To those who cite they are very real above, I would love some references to read up on. It occurs to me that if they have never appeared (is that 100% verifiably true statement?) in any official Rolex literature, then their existence can only be verified by original owners who purchased them with the all red hands. Even then, assuming that they evidently did not come with any special documentation, then we only have their 'eye witness' accounts to go by. That is to say, what if the hands were painted by whomever they purchased from.

As with all similarly debated vintage Rolex topics, one can only truly verify the facts if the horse (Rolex) decides to speak from its mouth. Were they special edition hands, factory accidents... or conjured up by fanciful dealers of the time... and no doubt fabricated by some fraudsters in modern years.

In my limited research, this source offers an interesting counter argument to those claiming authenticity and possibly a useful resource for those evaluating the acquisition of al all red hand: http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/thread63958.html

Regardless of their disputed existence, personally, I would love to own one :)

If you search on VRF, Rolex Geneva accepts watches with the blue insert or all red hands when they go in for service. That doesn't mean there aren't fakes of both around of course. I don't think anyone would dispute that Rolex made the authentic ones anymore. What they might dispute is what model GMTs they belong on.

[Beaumont Miller II]

John what is the general consensus regarding the all blue Gmt hand. I don't see much on the forums about it.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II

John what is the general consensus regarding the all blue Gmt hand. I don't see much on the forums about it.

I don't think there were any questions regarding its authenticity, but there are skeptics as usual. Nobody knows much for sure.

Send Greekbum a pm and he might have additional info on it.

jP

[Beaumont Miller II]

John, I saw the thread posted on VRF awhile back and discussed on TRF as well. I wasn't sure if there was a consensus on the serial number, reference number, or a specific dial these blue Gmt hands are correct for.

[QueueCumber]

Searching through VRF, it seems the all red hand has been seen on radial dials more often than has been suggested in this thread. Likewise, I see mention of a radial dial with all red hand and blue bezel insert in the 5.4m range in one of the Mondani books (Unfortunately I don't own the book to confirm. And, of course, I have no idea how original that piece is either).

[willang]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

Searching through VRF, it seems the all red hand has been seen on radial dials more often than has been suggested in this thread. Likewise, I see mention of a radial dial with all red hand and blue bezel insert in the 5.4m range in one of the Mondani books (Unfortunately I don't own the book to confirm. And, of course, I have no idea how original that piece is either).

Regardless, the ones that you and John (BM II) have are absolute beauties and as long as you enjoy them, that's all that matters!

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by willang

Regardless, the ones that you and John (BM II) have are absolute beauties and as long as you enjoy them, that's all that matters!

Agreed!

I think it is pertinent that any additional contradictory information is posted to widen a frame that was potentially hastily narrowed...