Leaving TRF; a different perspective

[susuki1220]

If you are new to the forum it is a must read; if you are a noob to the watch game is it a must read. Warning; very long story.

I've been on the forum for almost 4 years and been trying to learn about watches through the different threads here by TRF members. I'm glad there is a community like this as it benefits all of us in some way or another and truly some very useful information. Only until recently did i start trying to buy and sell/trade some watches.

I'm one of those that doesn't post much but only reads as i feel that i don't have enough knowledge to give back to the community. I even went to one of the local GTG at Beverly Hill held by one of the members here, Markk and was glad that I went as all these people that love watches were there having a good time sharing information because we have the same hobby.

My 1st rolex was a 5500 air king from ebay [ yes i know, it was actually authentic which later was sold to a member on the forum ]

My 2nd watch was the Omega GSOM which i bought from a trusted seller todreamawatch. Funny thing is Sergey sent 2 watches as he sent me the wrong one first and I return one to him with honesty.

My 3rd watch is a Daytona from a local AD, which i loved so much.

My 4th watch is a BLNR with an influence photo by Loevhagen on many of the BLNR + Jubilee bracelet post which means i have to get that combo.

Fast forward to last week is where everything went down hill. I posted a FSOT of my omega GSOM on the forum here to fund a Explorer 2 polar because I caught the rolex fever thanks to TRF . http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=443409


I ended up trading the watch with a member here jmassey215 [Jim] for an exp 2. He provided me many references and claims that he got burn before and want to find out the best way to trade the watch. He suggests to go through a trusted seller here FNFZ4 [Alfred] to do exchange and swap watches. [ Jim also bought the explorer 2 from Alfred originally] I opt out trying to avoid extra shipping fee and handling fee and me being a guy that believes in humanity that i sent him my GSOM first before he shipped his Explorer 2 to me [yes i'm crazy]. In the text message I even said if there is anything that you don't like please sent it back and i will exchange it, and i'm sure he agreed and honor the same, until later he broke his promise

Jim liked the GSOM i sent him because the watch was as described just like brand new without sticker as i wore it for one day and left it in the watch box since. He received the GSOM on 11/21 a Saturday overnight delivery to him. He was able to enjoy the watch over the weekend to accept everything before he sent the explorer 2 to me Monday which i received yesterday 11/24, Tuesday.

When i took out his EXP 2 watch for examination, i found 1 deep scratch on the side of the watch which you can feel with your nail. and a desk dive mark on the clasp. And of course being very picky about my watch i did ask in advance if there was any scratches visible and he said nope and it is also like new and wore twice. [ I actually didn't care about the scratch of the desk dive marks at all because i know i probably will scratch it up myself]



What i found next i couldn't accept as there was a defect on the polar dial. The word "DATE", the letter "A" was missing the bottom left leg. i have ocd.


First thing i did was actually to call RSC in Beverly Hills to see what is wait time and what are my options about the defect. RSC suggested to return to the AD i bought it from since it was fairly new[ 2month ] or the fix was going to be 4 weeks. RSC suggests that because it is a new watch they don't recommend opening it as usually they open the watch for full service but can do it if i really want it to for warranty issues.

Next I called Alfred knowing he was the original trusted seller of this explorer 2. I introduced myself and told him about the defect and I kindly ask if i can exchange for a new one with him, he declined and I totally understand and asks me to take it to RSC. I told him RSC is my last resort and i attempted to ask if the warranty covers the US as the original AD stamp was from Greece. His tone of voice was rude and condescending like i am stupid and asked me probably 3-4 times if i read the warranty card. I replied no as that is why i am asking you the question. He replied 'INTERNATIONAL'. I don't know why he chose this way respond but maybe because i didn't buy anything from him before and now that i called him for something he sold 2 month ago to Jim. That is totally fine but as a noob here if i have something that i don't understand i would like to ask and not get flamed. So my image of a reputable seller on TRF shattered instantly.

I then attempt to call Jim to tell him the situation and that i talked to RSC and alfred. I sent him a few photos of the defect close up so he can see. He replied saying that Alfred said i fake the call to RSC and that i never called and i am trying to scam him and use photoshop and that he wants to wait for Alfred to confirm that the watch is indeed defected from his original post. I told him there is no way for me to touch the dial as i just opened it like 30min ago and the dial is inside the crystal casing and why would i want photo shop and make this stuff up? I asked for to swap our watches back, he declined and said he wants to talk to Alfred first. [ i have the evidence that i indeed called RSC for 3 minutes to ask the specialist the question ]

I text Jim probably 2 hours later asking for a $400 compensation for the defect and i will keep the watch and i will go through the hassle of RSC and warranty and not having the watch for 4 week. If not then we can just swap our watch back as i am willing to lose on the shipping cost and just want the watch back so i can resell it and you can have your exp2 back and you deal with the defect with Alfred or RSC. He declined and this time he said him and Alfred know in fact that i'm trying to distort him money and scamming and there is no defect what so ever originally sold by Alfred and that Alfred couldn't have missed it when he sold it to me.

I sent both of them the original links to Alfred post 2 month ago where he sold Jim the watch. [ Alfred claims he uses stock photos for this thread, i told him look at the serial number and he never replied ]
http://www.uspro693.startdedicated.c...ghlight=216570

Serial number 773***86 on one of the photo and you can see the "A" bottom left leg missing ever so slightly. So open your eyes and tell me this is not the exact same watch that i have. [ funny he tried to say he uses stock photos?? be aware of his future post as it might be stock photos ]


After that, Jim still refused to ship back my watch. Jim threatens that i'm scamming him and no one will believe me my story because him and Alfred is very honest and has all the good reputation in the past on multiple forums. I don't understand why Jim is so afraid to get his watch back?? maybe he knew there was a defect from the beginning?

Lesson learned and i take my loss , i took the risk of the private trade from the beginning and i knew these things might happen. But i still want to give the story so new TRF members can see the power of leverage when you are dealing with a reputable member. Who is to judge reputable people don't do messed up things?

Judge for yourself, knowing all the reputable seller here and claiming having many feedback maybe because they treat you nicely due to business reason $$/item transaction and a smooth transaction. But when things go south i'm not sure if they will back you up or burn you. Talking to people in a condescending way because i'm not in the watch game breaks my little heart and not acceptable to an adult and the fact that the person trading the watch don't even want his own watch back is unbelievable.


TRF is a great place and has lots of knowledge. Please be careful of who you choose to deal with on the forums; reputable or not doesn't mean they treat you honestly and nicely like a human being.

Off to thanksgivings and seriously i'm not sure why Alfred is even in this mess as it is a private trade between me and Jim.

I'm sure i'll be back to TRF when i need my Gold Sub sometime next year

Eddie

[Lordofrolex]

Good to know. I understand what you mean kind of. Many of us TRFers are so quick to send someone to one of the reputable sellers on here giving these sellers lots of power especially for the fate that dealing on the forums is such a trust type of deal. People disappear, sell fakes, sell defects and theres not much you can do about it as again its a trust type of transaction. You cant see the product, your sending money over bank wires, Theres no store front, many don't have there dealing under a business name, ect., ect.

Sorry to hear this happened to you. Yes i know it sucks not to have the watch for 4 weeks but at least it can be fixed and its a real watch.

Hope to see you back on the forums.

[Patton250]

Wow

[viper]

Sorry to hear this. I've been burnt a few times in the past too.

Lesson learned. Sometimes it's not worth the potential savings if any risk exists

My last 2 purchases were from an AD

[Spikedlee]

Sorry to hear this happened to you. I definitely agree that the way Alfred spoke to you was wrong and you being accused of scamming for a legitimate issue is also wrong. I am however in a bit of disagreement on your request for $400 of compensation when RSC will fix this issue for free. I know that the wait time is a few weeks, but I'm not sure it really equates out to that level of monetary value. Just take it as a lesson learned and know that the RSC will replace the dial and can easily buff out those scratches leaving you with a brand new looking watch in just a matter of weeks.

[breitlingal]

Originally Posted by susuki1220

I've been on the forum for almost 4 years and been trying to learn about watches through the different threads here by TRF members.

My 1st rolex was a 5500 air king from ebay [ yes i know, it was actually authentic which later was sold to a member on the forum ]

My 2nd watch was the Omega GSOM which i bought from a trusted seller todreamawatch. Funny thing is Sergey sent 2 watches as he sent me the wrong one first and I return one to him with honesty.

My 3rd watch is a Daytona from a local AD, which i loved so much.

My 4th watch is a BLNR with an influence photo by Loevhagen on many of the BLNR + Jubilee bracelet post which means i have to get that combo.


Next I called Alfred knowing he was the original trusted seller of this explorer 2. I introduced myself and told him about the defect and I kindly ask if i can exchange for a new one with him, he declined and I totally understand and asks me to take it to RSC. I told him RSC is my last resort and i attempted to ask if the warranty covers the US as the original AD stamp was from Greece. His tone of voice was rude and condescending like i am stupid and asked me probably 3-4 times if i read the warranty card. I replied no as that is why i am asking you the question. He replied 'INTERNATIONAL'. I don't know why he chose this way respond but maybe because i didn't buy anything from him before and now that i called him for something he sold 2 month ago to Jim. That is totally fine but as a noob here

So you have been on the forum for 4 years yet you call yourself a noob? You still don't know in 4 years how rolex warranty works? there are multiple threads on the subject. Even I know and I have been here for a very short time.

You did 3 deals with forum members and you still don't know how buying and selling works?

Why would Alfred exchange a watch that you didn't even buy from him for you? That makes zero sense and I wouldn't even bring it up.

Did you ask for pictures from the person you traded with? did you see the "A" defect? I can understand the scratch on the case but this is weird. Its right there on the front of the dial.

Somethings don't add up.

I did one trade and one sale with 2 trusted sellers and both of my experiences were stellar. For the trade i sent my watch to the trusted seller first and he sent his watch to me once he received it. Second deal i did via a bank wire and I had the watch in under 24 hours in my hands. Both watches were better than described.

Alex

[breitlingal]

Originally Posted by Spikedlee

Sorry to hear this happened to you. I definitely agree that the way Alfred spoke to you was wrong and you being accused of scamming for a legitimate issue is also wrong. I am however in a bit of disagreement on your request for $400 of compensation when RSC will fix this issue for free. I know that the wait time is a few weeks, but I'm not sure it really equates out to that level of monetary value. Just take it as a lesson learned and know that the RSC will replace the dial and can easily buff out those scratches leaving you with a brand new looking watch in just a matter of weeks.

Agreed. If you want to get some sort of money back as the person you traded with to cover expenses of shipping it to rsc and such. Its under warranty and can be fixed easily by RSC free of charge to you. Yes its 4 weeks but watch will come back brand new fully tested and warranty extended

[Duey]

TIME OUT HERE -

Alfred is good stand up guy and my friend and above all a Trusted Seller Here on TRF.
And as he stated "I'm not sure why Alfred is even in this mess as it is a private trade between me and Jim"

So lets leave Alfred out of this. There are 2 sides to every STORY .

Regards,
DUEY

[Mastergreenhand]

I don't get why you would ask Alfred for an exchange. You didn't purchase it from him and he has no obligation to you. The deal has zero to do with him at this point. It's between you and the seller. I would press the seller to give you back your watch, as it wasn't as described. I'm not sure its worth threatening litigation. Me personally, because I'm crazy like that , would threaten to show up at his house and get my watch back then. But that's me. Worse case, you just bite the bullet, send it in to RSC and wait for the watch to be returned to you good as new and call it a lesson learned. I've dealt with Alfred many times over the years and I know he's a class act and trust him with any deal. Seeing him dragged into this isn't cool.

[hbombkid]

Sorry to hear and hope it all works out, but I agree with the others. You always buy the seller and it does not look like you did in this case. Looks like this Jim fella has never sold anything here and is not really known. I did not see any references for him. He could be a standup guy but with that alone I would have stayed clear.

Alfred should not even be in the question so he was original owner you did not do a deal with him. Again buy the seller.

Good luck and thanks for the info. I guess Jim will make it right or you can go to RSC and he just has worse of a reputation.

[melrob1]

Sorry this happened to you. Some people just are not good people. Now Duey says there are two sides to a story. Not true, there are three sides, both sides then the truth. Now Alfred did not even have to talk to you because it has nothing to do with him. You need to modify this and remove him from here.

[gyro]

I think we need a very clear picture of the A on your watch
Held exactly like the watch in the link same exact angle same focal distance
If you can same clarity
That will be a beautiful watch after the RSC fixes
Congratulations :)

[cdmorenot]

Just a deal that went sour at some point and it is unfortunate someone highly regarded as Alfred got caught in the crossfire.

I am sorry for the issues but I hope RSC restores your faith in the watch and the forum. We all have our days and there is a chance Alfred wasn't in the mood that day.

As for Jim, give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, you still believe in humanity. No?

[RichM]

Wow is right!

[Submariner2015]

I, for one, feel your frustration with the above scenario--from your point of view, you feel wronged and just want to rescind the trade. You went to the original seller because you probably felt doing so would be akin to the original buyer doing so (by proxy) if he discovered such issues with the watch--sadly, as others have noted, the original seller bears no responsibility to you and rightfully so but I understand your logic in the attempt. Furthermore, the request for $400 compensation was probably, in your mind, what you would have asked for had you known about the defects beforehand and to balance the equity of the trade...all of this logic I can understand, but again, when dealing with people over the internet, sometimes you must take a loss and gain a lesson. i wish you well and please post pics of your expl. 2 after the return from service

[Suboc]

I think it's time to hear from the other side of the story. You say he's one of the members here?

[rollee1]

I'm sorry to hear your story and feels your frustration.
Didn't you see close up photos of the watch from Jim? You should have directly ask him to exchange the watch right when you open the box, as it is not up to the condition as promised.
I think rsc will fix the watch up to brand new, but this dilemma could have been avoided.

[Gotgolf52]

I am a long time member of multiple luxury high performance cars, admit I am brand new to the Rolex world/forum, but I do believe in honesty, integrity and keeping up with my words. I think I understand your pain, you trusted someone but they being dishonest and its not cool. I hope the other party will chime in and voice their side of the story and everything work out for all party. Best of luck

[jonathan17]

Originally Posted by susuki1220

Next I called Alfred knowing he was the original trusted seller of this explorer 2. I introduced myself and told him about the defect and I kindly ask if i can exchange for a new one with him, he declined and I totally understand and asks me to take it to RSC. I told him RSC is my last resort and i attempted to ask if the warranty covers the US as the original AD stamp was from Greece. His tone of voice was rude and condescending like i am stupid and asked me probably 3-4 times if i read the warranty card. I replied no as that is why i am asking you the question. He replied 'INTERNATIONAL'. I don't know why he chose this way respond but maybe because i didn't buy anything from him before and now that i called him for something he sold 2 month ago to Jim. That is totally fine but as a noob here if i have something that i don't understand i would like to ask and not get flamed. So my image of a reputable seller on TRF shattered instantly.

Eddie

Come on people, please read the thread, he never said he has anything against alfred, he just mentioned that the watch in mention originally came from him and was purchased by jim?

Alfred is a trusted seller most of us know that

Lets just be fair to everyone.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Gotgolf52

I am a long time member of multiple luxury high performance cars

Originally Posted by Gotgolf52

, admit I am brand new to the Rolex world/forum, but I do believe in honesty, integrity and keeping up with my words. I think I understand your pain, you trusted someone but they being dishonest and its not cool. I hope the other party will chime in and voice their side of the story and everything work out for all party. Best of luck

Nevermind, I want to keep my membership

[SohAIS]

I am not sure why Alfred is being pulled when he didn't sell you the watch.

[sickened1]

Originally Posted by susuki1220

"His tone of voice was rude and condescending like i am stupid and asked me probably 3-4 times if i read the warranty card." and "Talking to people in a condescending way because i'm not in the watch game breaks my little heart and not acceptable to an adult."

Perhaps he wanted to point out this part?

Originally Posted by Suboc

I think it's time to hear from the other side of the story. You say he's one of the members here?

Yes, we need to hear from Jim.

[locutus49]

My head hurts.

[Syed117]

I hate seeing stories like this.

The OP obviously did the deal in good faith if he was willing to send out his watch first.

An important thing to remember is that trusted seller does not apply to everyone. Not even those that might have a long history of selling watches. A person needs to decide who they consider trusted.

I once contacted a seller on this forum that many consider trusted. I went out of my way to be polite and respectful but the responses I got were not what I would expect from someone wanting to make a sale. I didn't then and I won't now say who it was because at the end of the day, I'm just a random guy while the the other person is someone who many others consider "trusted". No one would take my side even if the trusted seller was in the wrong.

Hope everything works out for you OP. There are two sides to every story, but if what you're saying is the truth, I hope it hasn't turned you off from the forum completely

[Egelber]

Bad news. I was looking for a trusted seller in my local area of Miami so I could do a face to face when I was ready to pull the trigger on my 114060. I spoke to Alfred to do the purchase locally. He held the watch for me, and we agreed on a price. I had to change the face to face transaction a couple of times because my schedule at work changed literally, so I couldn't keep the appointment with him. I think that was honorable what he did for me without any deposit, and he even offered to come to my house to do the deal. I was unable to buy the watch from him solely because I wasn't at home until much later that evening. I ended up buying the watch from another seller here on TRF, because I felt bad that I cancelled numerous times, and I didn't want the same mistake to happen again. For that reason alone, I feel he is reputable, and would entertain his watches as a next purchase.

[Kobin]

Wrong to contact the original seller (Alfred). Nothing to do with him.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by susuki1220

First thing i did was actually to call RSC in Beverly Hills to see what is wait time and what are my options about the defect. RSC suggested to return to the AD i bought it from since it was fairly new[ 2month ] or the fix was going to be 4 weeks. RSC suggests that because it is a new watch they don't recommend opening it as usually they open the watch for full service but can do it if i really want it to for warranty issues.

Next I called Alfred knowing he was the original trusted seller of this explorer 2. I introduced myself and told him about the defect and I kindly ask if i can exchange for a new one with him, he declined and I totally understand and asks me to take it to RSC.

Off to thanksgivings and seriously i'm not sure why Alfred is even in this mess as it is a private trade between me and Jim. I'm sure i'll be back to TRF when i need my Gold Sub sometime next year

Eddie

The reason why Alfred is involved is because he was the second person YOU called looking to exchange the watch that you DIDN'T buy from him, which is absolutely ridiculous. Why would you even think to attempt to do that?

Then you wonder why he is involved? Because YOU involved him??!!! That's just being super goofy...

[presario]

Really sucks to hear. Jim is solely the one responsible and he should have the honor to take back the watch if he had mislead you to believe the watch was like new without the stickers. Jim needs to answer for this.

The OP did make a mistake asking Alfred though and I think he was just frustrated in thinking that he needs to do something when he is clearly not at fault.

That's why I think exchanges should only be done face to face so each party can inspect the watch prior to the deal. Or only deal with respected forum sellers in order to avoid such headaches. Either way sucks to hear and I hope things get resolved.

[occb2]

I agree with Presario on the face to face. It is very hard if your in different states but you went through a trusted seller here which I would say should have inspected the watch prior to the transfer and told you every detail.

Its like when I got my 996 turbo. It was in a different state. So I called up the local trusted Indy shop and had them do a full Pre purchase inspection or PPI. When I flew down to drive her home I knew what I was getting into. The same should happen here.

Just thinking out loud but did the trusted seller make any money in the trade? If not I guess he wouldn't really have to inspect the watch just take it in and mail it out. Good luck brother. Happy thanksgiving and I hope it all works out.

That might have been a better choice. Having a trusted dealer here do a pre purchase inspection of the watch and pay him for his time and effort and the seller do the same on his watch.

[ncstate1201]

Yeah shouldn't involve Alfred, if I were him I would assume you were trying to scam someone since he is removed from the deal. I do not believe that to be the case based on your post, I think you are an honest person who made a bad deal, and after you send it to RSC it will be good.