The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Vintage Rolex Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17 January 2016, 08:38 AM   #1
jmeta
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 4
Rolex 6202 - is the dial refinished? luke rottman

All

This year I purchased a 6202 and it was appraised as "All Original". I have later found out that the dial is potentially refinished. The dealer agreed to buy the watch back if I was unhappy and guaranteed that the dial is a genuine rolex. I have an invoice and appraisal to support my comments.

I need expert opinions please. I want my money back buy the dealer is not taking any responsibility. I am prepared to take legal action and your support will be greatly appreciated.
Attached Images
         
jmeta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 January 2016, 08:50 AM   #2
Matdaytona
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Real Name: Mat
Location: Somerset uk
Watch: Rolex daytona
Posts: 574
Dial is refinished not sure from the pics if the hands are relumed too
Matdaytona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 January 2016, 03:09 PM   #3
Old Expat Beast
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Old Expat Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Adam
Location: Far East
Watch: Golden Tuna
Posts: 28,826
Appraised by whom? And who is the dealer?
Old Expat Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 January 2016, 06:59 PM   #4
Old Expat Beast
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Old Expat Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Adam
Location: Far East
Watch: Golden Tuna
Posts: 28,826
I temporarily removed one of your sales listings for this watch until the issue is resolved, and deleted the other one. No need to post more than one ad for one watch.
Old Expat Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 06:26 AM   #5
jmeta
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 4
Thankyou Adam.

The watch was purchased from Luke Rottman / Robert Maron and Appraised by Robert Maron of LA
jmeta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 09:44 AM   #6
Old Expat Beast
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Old Expat Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Adam
Location: Far East
Watch: Golden Tuna
Posts: 28,826
When did you buy it? Hopefully some others can give you opinions on the dial and hands here.
Old Expat Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 10:16 AM   #7
05carbondrz
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,030
I can not comment on the Dial but I have read numerous horror Stories about Robert Maron.I wish You the best and hope that You get your Money back.
05carbondrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 11:08 AM   #8
springer
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
springer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
Posts: 17,319
The original sports watch, the 6202 TURN-O-GRAPH, was an interesting watch and set the stage for the sports models that followed. I believe they were introduced around 1954.

The dial appears to be an original example minus the TURN-O-GRAPH lettering from the bottom of the dial. Additionally, the lume does appear to have been replaced at some point. A closer look examination would definitely be warranted. It will be interesting to hear from some others, especially watchcrank if he finds this thread.
__________________
Member of NAWCC since 1990.

INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP
Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics.
springer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 11:47 AM   #9
RolexAuthority
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,233
So sad to hear this I hope you get your money back
RolexAuthority is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 12:06 PM   #10
watchcrank
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: michael
Location: Florida
Watch: explorer II cream
Posts: 1,664
6202

Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
The original sports watch, the 6202 TURN-O-GRAPH, was an interesting watch and set the stage for the sports models that followed. I believe they were introduced around 1954.

The dial appears to be an original example minus the TURN-O-GRAPH lettering from the bottom of the dial. Additionally, the lume does appear to have been replaced at some point. A closer look examination would definitely be warranted. It will be interesting to hear from some others, especially watchcrank if he finds this thread.
I've had several of these, couple dozen actually, but have not seen one without the TOG markings at top or bottom. Had a 6204 with the printing faded almost away. I'd want to look at a different angle to see if any shadow of the printing was evident.
watchcrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 12:15 PM   #11
springer
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
springer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
Posts: 17,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchcrank View Post
I've had several of these, couple dozen actually, but have not seen one without the TOG markings at top or bottom. Had a 6204 with the printing faded almost away. I'd want to look at a different angle to see if any shadow of the printing was evident.
An in-person examination would definitely help with a proper evaluation.
__________________
Member of NAWCC since 1990.

INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP
Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics.
springer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 06:16 PM   #12
lukerottman
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 18
Luke Rottman here. I would like to address this issue with a few points. Robert Maron NEVER sold you [Jim] anything, ever. And Robert was never part of our deal nor did he ever own this watch! I sold you this 6202 off of MY wrist over seven months ago. I NEVER made any "guarantee" concerning the dial whatsoever. If I did, I would know. Not to mention, if this dial is refinished, and I guaranteed it was original, I would've reversed the transaction long ago. I NEVER agreed to buy back this watch if you were "unhappy." And you took over seven months to realize you were "unhappy"? That's a first!!! I was kind enough to offer you trades on the 6202, yet you didn't take a liking to any watches in my inventory. Okay. Then I was willing to issue you a full refund! However, you weren't disposed towards sending me the watch. I have tried my best to resolve this matter favorably (for you!), and you're out here on the forum badmouthing Robert Maron, a reputable dealer who has had no involvement in our deal, and me...when I was just trying to help!
lukerottman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 06:21 PM   #13
lukerottman
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 18
As I've said before, Jim, send me the watch, and I will issue the refund! Let's move on.
lukerottman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 06:25 PM   #14
RolexAuthority
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukerottman View Post
Luke Rottman here. I would like to address this issue with a few points. Robert Maron NEVER sold you [Jim] anything, ever. And Robert was never part of our deal nor did he ever own this watch! I sold you this 6202 off of MY wrist over seven months ago. I NEVER made any "guarantee" concerning the dial whatsoever. If I did, I would know. Not to mention, if this dial is refinished, and I guaranteed it was original, I would've reversed the transaction long ago. I NEVER agreed to buy back this watch if you were "unhappy." And you took over seven months to realize you were "unhappy"? That's a first!!! I was kind enough to offer you trades on the 6202, yet you didn't take a liking to any watches in my inventory. Okay. Then I was willing to issue you a full refund! However, you weren't disposed towards sending me the watch. I have tried my best to resolve this matter favorably (for you!), and you're out here on the forum badmouthing Robert Maron, a reputable dealer who has had no involvement in our deal, and me...when I was just trying to help!
Two sides to every story it looks like Luke has tried everything to resolve this in multiple ways it's always good to get the other side of the story for a balanced overview of what's transpired. Thank you Luke for your message.
RolexAuthority is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 06:39 PM   #15
Old Expat Beast
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Old Expat Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Adam
Location: Far East
Watch: Golden Tuna
Posts: 28,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukerottman View Post
Luke Rottman here. I would like to address this issue with a few points. Robert Maron NEVER sold you [Jim] anything, ever. And Robert was never part of our deal nor did he ever own this watch! I sold you this 6202 off of MY wrist over seven months ago. I NEVER made any "guarantee" concerning the dial whatsoever. If I did, I would know. Not to mention, if this dial is refinished, and I guaranteed it was original, I would've reversed the transaction long ago. I NEVER agreed to buy back this watch if you were "unhappy." And you took over seven months to realize you were "unhappy"? That's a first!!! I was kind enough to offer you trades on the 6202, yet you didn't take a liking to any watches in my inventory. Okay. Then I was willing to issue you a full refund! However, you weren't disposed towards sending me the watch. I have tried my best to resolve this matter favorably (for you!), and you're out here on the forum badmouthing Robert Maron, a reputable dealer who has had no involvement in our deal, and me...when I was just trying to help!
The OP hasn't bad-mouthed RM at all, he simply said "The watch was purchased from Luke Rottman / Robert Maron and Appraised by Robert Maron of LA."

Did the watch come with appraisal paperwork from RM?
Old Expat Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 January 2016, 11:52 PM   #16
linesiders
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
linesiders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: RedSox Nation
Watch: U Talkn Bout Wilis
Posts: 5,503
I have been following this thread. It still needs to be determined if the dial is refinished, correct? Many indications are but it is still on the early side for a concrete determination.

Frankly I think better photos at minimum would be needed to ascertain this. Watchcrank is on the fence without better images or seeing in hand.

Does the OP have a copy of the appraisal from RM?

Of course Luke could follow up with yes the dial was refinished and put this all to bed.
__________________
I'm a sailor peg. And I've lost my leg. Climbing up the top sails. I've lost my leg!
linesiders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 January 2016, 01:25 AM   #17
jmeta
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 4
All. Luke has offered a refund months and never delivered. I will keep everyone posted on what happens!
jmeta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 January 2016, 01:32 AM   #18
linesiders
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
linesiders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: RedSox Nation
Watch: U Talkn Bout Wilis
Posts: 5,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmeta View Post
All. Luke has offered a refund months and never delivered. I will keep everyone posted on what happens!
But you never sent him the watch - correct?
__________________
I'm a sailor peg. And I've lost my leg. Climbing up the top sails. I've lost my leg!
linesiders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 January 2016, 02:20 AM   #19
lukerottman
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 18
I handed Jim the watch off my wrist. He has had it for over seventh months.
lukerottman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 January 2016, 02:22 AM   #20
lukerottman
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 18
I never offered a refund "months." You brought the dial to my attention within the past days.
lukerottman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 January 2016, 03:15 AM   #21
greekbum
"TRF" Member
 
greekbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Real Name: Nikos
Location: Florida
Watch: Rolex GMT 16750
Posts: 8,418
Unless the OP posts very high resolution pictures of the dial without the crystal or out of the watch nobody can say for sure anything about the dial imho. The seller has offered a full refund a very long time after the sale and thats something most will never do. If you don't like the watch you have a chance to get your $ back sounds like Luke is a stand up seller to me as i have had trouble getting my $ back after i left a sellers booth before at a watch show.
__________________
Follow Me On Instagram @nickgogas

Original Owner ROLEX 16750 GMT Daily Wearer For Over 13,000 Days And Counting
greekbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 January 2016, 05:54 AM   #22
B.currency
"TRF" Member
 
B.currency's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Pittsburgh
Watch: 15400
Posts: 337
Robert Maron has a pretty bad reputation. He was found to have sold a fake AP and had and a rolex that i know of. Good luck with your watch.
B.currency is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 January 2016, 06:25 AM   #23
themaninblack
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,058
The buyer and seller should work it out privately, otherwise its just, "he said - she said". Public lynchings on a forum are not pleasant or effective.
themaninblack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 January 2016, 07:27 AM   #24
dstacy
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Real Name: Who cares?
Location: Texas
Watch: A few
Posts: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by greekbum View Post
The seller has offered a full refund a very long time after the sale .
Yes Nick, you called it. I'm not sure how it could get much better for the buyer than that and it speaks highly of the seller.
dstacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 January 2016, 06:13 AM   #25
lukerottman
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 18
I would like to make a public request that the moderators take down this thread. I have resolved this issue with Jim, he has sent the watch, and I will be sending him a full refund after I have the watch in hand. Jim sent me a text just yesterday that he already contacted you, the moderators, with regards to removing this thread. I have guaranteed him the refund. I would just like to make sure this gets done. Thank you all.
lukerottman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2016, 11:43 AM   #26
jmeta
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 4
Refund paid

All. I received the refund from Rob Maron today in full. I would like to commend Rob for taking charge of the incident and effectively resolving the issue in an appropriate manner.

I would also like to thank the Mods at Rolex Forums for their support.

Finally, in respect of the comments from Luke, he knows the truth and I am not prepared for the "he said she said" argument. Some of us have better things to do with our lives!

Please remove post
jmeta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2016, 11:48 AM   #27
RolexAuthority
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,233
Highly respected seller this thread should never have been posted
RolexAuthority is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2016, 11:57 AM   #28
southtexas
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
 
southtexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Great State of TX
Posts: 5,764
Rolex 6202 - is the dial refinished?

I'm confused, you bought the watch from Luke Rottman but Rob Maron issued you a refund?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Forty six & 2 are just ahead of me.

Follow me on Instagram @ccrolex
southtexas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2016, 01:32 PM   #29
05carbondrz
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by southtexas View Post
I'm confused, you bought the watch from Luke Rottman but Rob Maron issued you a refund?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You read my Mind!
05carbondrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2016, 02:00 PM   #30
crowncollection
"TRF" Member
 
crowncollection's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Real Name: David
Location: australia
Posts: 20,216
I am also confused now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
watches many
crowncollection is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
is this dial refinished? , luke rottman , stinks to high heaven , watches


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Wrist Aficionado

My Watch LLC

WatchesOff5th

DavidSW Watches

Takuya Watches

OCWatches


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.