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WatchTimes · 9 July 2008, 12:17 PM

Overall I must admit I am not a huge follower of the Panerai craze.
I know they are great watches and have a HUGE following and GREAT
resale but I just rather companies who have inhouse movements.

That being said...

The Pam 270 & 233 are amazing!
I do hope someday I can get one of those.
The 8 day manual is VERY impressive
BUT
The 10 Day auto is AMAZING!

Thank you everyone for sharing all of your pics
with me and letting me learn from your posts!

leopardprey · 9 July 2008, 08:36 PM

Some thoughts on the p.2002 movement that is manfactured completely In-House for the Panerai Models 233, 268, and 289. Wrote this thread in Time Zone a couple of months ago, but I know Bo and others are considering buying a Panerai 233 so thought would share some insight I have on the movement.

Some of the things about the p.2002 movement that does not get discussed about much, but learned from my research into watch movements and into the devolopent of Panerai's inhouse P.2002 movement:The p.2002 movement actually has some of the best shock protection of any watch Panerai makes. If you notice, the movement has the balance-cock fitted with 2 supports and also the balance spring is laser welded to the balance spring stud and the collet. This gives much better shock resistance and reliability, than a swan neck regulator for example and single supported balance cocks that are found on the unitas movements of the base models and also the ETA automatic movements of the contemporary movements. It is interesting to point out that JLC uses this same technology in many of their compressor watches. Makes sense as many of the design Enginners that develop movements for JLC also jointly work with Panerai (again as both companies are owned by same Parent company, and one of the benefits of this is shared engineering/technology). Also with the p.2002 movement, Panerai developed a more shock resistant way to mount the movement in the case. from what I understand, and correct me if I am wrong, this is also being carried over to other models in the J Series as well.

We also can look at the 3 Barrel 8 day movement. Allows better accuracy and less fluctuations in accuracy from when fully wound at 8 days down to the last day. If I understand correctly the power reserve is actually closer to 10 days, but 8 days is on the power reserve, as after 8 days the accuracy may start to have a decline. So best to wind up every 7-8 days. This also helps make the movement more ruggedd, as less wear and tear on the crown, seals etc, as it only needs to wound up every 7-8 days, as opposed to ever other day. I like how this actually has some military roots, as Panerai stated, as if you are a member of team that is on an operation, where dust, sand, water, mud,etc are prevalant - then this gives you a longer time period between winding, thus do not have to open the crown to rewind in an austere environment.

The three barrels also give plenty of energy to allow other complications such as the GMT function and date.

One of the articles I read also stressed how modern computer technology assisted greatly in the development of the p.2002. Using computer models, the movement's run time could be accelerated and any potential problems with long term running could be eliminated.

Anyway, as you can tell, I am very impressed with the p.2002 movement and think Panerai really engineerd a well designed movement. IMHO, the 233 or 268 is worth the $$$ for what you get.

mfer · 10 July 2008, 12:17 AM

Yeah, if I had 11k laying around, I'd have a 268 in a heartbeat, but that damn 183 keeps tempting me from time to time. I guess I should just save.

Teofilo · 10 July 2008, 05:00 AM

Great article Chad.
I love the Radiomirs and the 268 will be high on my list in a couple of years time. Anyone got any wrist shots ?

Mik, have you gone off the idea of a 242 ?

mfer · 10 July 2008, 05:59 AM

Its still there. I love the fact that it is an auto and JLC movement. I really want to see one in the flesh. I had an opportunity here in STL, but I missed it.

brainbizz · 10 July 2008, 10:42 AM

2 of my favorites

WatchTimes · 10 July 2008, 12:07 PM

Leopardprey,
Thank you for the GREAT post and info!
I had no clue about that.
What can you tell me about the movement in the 270?

Of the two which would you get and why.

I like the Radiomir's BUT part of my attraction to Panerai's are
the crown guard.

I also think its VERY cool how they put the date magnifier inside,
Rolex should look at that on some of their watches.

I bought a Rolex SD just because I did not want the cyclops of the Sub
(and I just like the SD). I am considering taking off the cyclops
when I get an Exp II

brainbizz · 10 July 2008, 12:48 PM

I almost pulled the trigger on a 270 but in the end felt the symmetry of the 233 was better without the nine. My taste have evolved away from the automatic movements to the manual wind. The eight day movement is great and the 233 i was the first with that movement then the 268 j. I have both. I hopefully will also obtain a 317. The 270 just to me is not different enough to justify both. I bagged the 270 and got on the list for the Fer 024 as well as the special editions.

brainbizz · 10 July 2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfer

Yeah, if I had 11k laying around, I'd have a 268 in a heartbeat, but that damn 183 keeps tempting me from time to time. I guess I should just save.

The 268 is not a replacement for the 183. The 183 is slimmer which works better with tight cuffs. I find that i wear the 231 or 183 for dress and 268 for sportier occasions. IMHO the 183 is a great watch and recommend it over a 190 for the price.

mfer · 10 July 2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbizz

The 268 is not a replacement for the 183. The 183 is slimmer which works better with tight cuffs. I find that i wear the 231 or 183 for dress and 268 for sportier occasions. IMHO the 183 is a great watch and recommend it over a 190 for the price.

True. I've actually never tried on the 268. Just love the movement I guess. There is only 1 AD here in town and they don't seem to get much in.

TswaneNguni · 10 July 2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfer

Its still there. I love the fact that it is an auto and JLC movement. I really want to see one in the flesh. I had an opportunity here in STL, but I missed it.

"In the flesh" ?? I have posted so many 242 pictures here,its scary !!

Here's how it looks from the AD.with the honey gator/deployant ....

Teofilo · 11 July 2008, 05:11 AM

This is such a great thread ! Just about my favourite since the Panerai section was created a few months ago.......wonderful pictures / info / views !!!!!!

Teofilo · 11 July 2008, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbizz

2 of my favorites

Amazing to see these two side by side in close up.....thanks

WatchTimes · 11 July 2008, 07:04 AM

Why would YOU pick the 270 or 233 IF
you were not taking price into account.
They are both amazing in their own way
and both have in house movements.

Don't say you'd get the 270, flip it and get the
233 and something else that is not an option.
If you were to get one to keep and price wasn't
the issue which would it be????

WHEN I have the funds (there are a couple watches in front of it) I will get one of these and it will be my one and only Panerai

leopardprey · 11 July 2008, 08:25 AM

If you take price away, though that is a factor as the 270 is several thousand more, then I still prefer the 233. Though this is just a personal choice, as the 270 is a great watch. I personally like the manual wind movement. Not many 8 day manual winds out there. I also like only the 6 and 12 hour marker on the 233 and also like how the day/night indicator in the seconds sub-dial is, compared to the am/pm indicators on the 270.

WatchTimes · 11 July 2008, 09:22 AM

Thank you.
I never noticed the Day/Night vs the AM/PM.
Id love to see a pic of the 233 in both Day and then one in Night mode if anyone can???

Are the cases the same? I know they are both 44 mm but in the limited pics I have
seen for some reason the 233 looks bigger.

Neither have the cyclops inside it seems?
Not that big of a deal as overall I don't care for a cyclops
BUT
I really do like how Panerai has them inside and would
have liked it BUT oh well....

The 8 day manual power reserve is amazing but then again so is the 10 day BUT I must admit overall I am partial to the dial on the 233.

I guess my lazy butt can get used to winding it every 8 days... haha

leopardprey · 11 July 2008, 10:47 AM

BOth are 44mm cases. No cyclops on the 233 or 270. Actually I prefer to not have the cyclops, as I have found that the innner cyclops project a little speck of purple light on the cyclops due to the infraction the cyclops has. The speck gets kind of annoying after awhile.

WatchTimes · 11 July 2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leopardprey

BOth are 44mm cases. No cyclops on the 233 or 270. Actually I prefer to not have the cyclops, as I have found that the innner cyclops project a little speck of purple light on the cyclops due to the infraction the cyclops has. The speck gets kind of annoying after awhile.

Thanks!
I am glad you made me aware of that.
I bought a Rolex Sea Dweller just to avoid the Cyclops and when I get other Rolex Sports watches I think I will most likely have the cyclops removed
I liked the look of the inner cyclops but I bet the speck you mention woulda driven me nuts over time!

xaggie95 · 11 July 2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfer

Its still there. I love the fact that it is an auto and JLC movement. I really want to see one in the flesh. I had an opportunity here in STL, but I missed it.

The 242 is an amazing watch and if you have an opportunity to get one do it.
I missed the chance, but wound up getting the 232. IMHO 242 with JLC and very limited run (300) is a home run in my book.

WatchTimes · 11 July 2008, 12:53 PM

Is the 233 like a Rolex in that you can't overwind and
screw up the watch easily?

Do you have to release the lock/lever to wind it
or is that just to set it?

Thanks, sorry if these questions seem stupid but as
I said I do not know much about Pans

GBJIV · 11 July 2008, 01:15 PM

I have the 177 ti - love it. You do have to release the lock/lever to wind them. I think that is a fact on all Pan watches. Not sure about the overwinding but, would love to know - I always worry about over winding mine.

brainbizz · 11 July 2008, 02:10 PM

The watches were designed so you do not have to unlock the crown to wind due to the possibility of altering the time while diving. To my knowledge they cannot be overwound.

brainbizz · 11 July 2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbizz

The watches were designed so you do not have to unlock the crown to wind due to the possibility of altering the time while diving. To my knowledge they cannot be overwound.

clarification luminors not rads concearning the unlocking of the crowns. PAnerai Model = PAMs

HKperf · 12 July 2008, 06:09 AM

my favorite is 233 jeremy~!! 233 has everything i'm looking for in panerai's
manual, 1950 case, GMT with date wheel, display case back and hmmm what else, oh..don't have to wind everyday..

9 July 2008, 12:17 PM	#1
WatchTimes 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: JYogi/Jeremy Location: Metro Detroit USA Watch: It's a Rolex! Posts: 5,787	Panerai Overall I must admit I am not a huge follower of the Panerai craze. I know they are great watches and have a HUGE following and GREAT resale but I just rather companies who have inhouse movements. That being said... The Pam 270 & 233 are amazing! I do hope someday I can get one of those. The 8 day manual is VERY impressive BUT The 10 Day auto is AMAZING! Thank you everyone for sharing all of your pics with me and letting me learn from your posts!

10 July 2008, 12:17 AM	#3
mfer "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Real Name: Mik Location: USA Posts: 13,724	Yeah, if I had 11k laying around, I'd have a 268 in a heartbeat, but that damn 183 keeps tempting me from time to time. I guess I should just save. __________________ member#3242

10 July 2008, 05:59 AM	#5
mfer "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Real Name: Mik Location: USA Posts: 13,724	Its still there. I love the fact that it is an auto and JLC movement. I really want to see one in the flesh. I had an opportunity here in STL, but I missed it. __________________ member#3242

10 July 2008, 10:42 AM	#6
brainbizz Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 608	2 of my favorites Attached Images

11 July 2008, 07:04 AM	#14
WatchTimes 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: JYogi/Jeremy Location: Metro Detroit USA Watch: It's a Rolex! Posts: 5,787	Why would YOU pick the 270 or 233 IF you were not taking price into account. They are both amazing in their own way and both have in house movements. Don't say you'd get the 270, flip it and get the 233 and something else that is not an option. If you were to get one to keep and price wasn't the issue which would it be???? WHEN I have the funds (there are a couple watches in front of it) I will get one of these and it will be my one and only Panerai __________________ "You won't rise to the occasion - you'll default to your level of training." Barrett Tillman Kentucky Colonel, Tennessee Squire & Combat Leprechaun

9 July 2008, 08:36 PM	#2
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	Some thoughts on the p.2002 movement that is manfactured completely In-House for the Panerai Models 233, 268, and 289. Wrote this thread in Time Zone a couple of months ago, but I know Bo and others are considering buying a Panerai 233 so thought would share some insight I have on the movement. Some of the things about the p.2002 movement that does not get discussed about much, but learned from my research into watch movements and into the devolopent of Panerai's inhouse P.2002 movement:The p.2002 movement actually has some of the best shock protection of any watch Panerai makes. If you notice, the movement has the balance-cock fitted with 2 supports and also the balance spring is laser welded to the balance spring stud and the collet. This gives much better shock resistance and reliability, than a swan neck regulator for example and single supported balance cocks that are found on the unitas movements of the base models and also the ETA automatic movements of the contemporary movements. It is interesting to point out that JLC uses this same technology in many of their compressor watches. Makes sense as many of the design Enginners that develop movements for JLC also jointly work with Panerai (again as both companies are owned by same Parent company, and one of the benefits of this is shared engineering/technology). Also with the p.2002 movement, Panerai developed a more shock resistant way to mount the movement in the case. from what I understand, and correct me if I am wrong, this is also being carried over to other models in the J Series as well. We also can look at the 3 Barrel 8 day movement. Allows better accuracy and less fluctuations in accuracy from when fully wound at 8 days down to the last day. If I understand correctly the power reserve is actually closer to 10 days, but 8 days is on the power reserve, as after 8 days the accuracy may start to have a decline. So best to wind up every 7-8 days. This also helps make the movement more ruggedd, as less wear and tear on the crown, seals etc, as it only needs to wound up every 7-8 days, as opposed to ever other day. I like how this actually has some military roots, as Panerai stated, as if you are a member of team that is on an operation, where dust, sand, water, mud,etc are prevalant - then this gives you a longer time period between winding, thus do not have to open the crown to rewind in an austere environment. The three barrels also give plenty of energy to allow other complications such as the GMT function and date. One of the articles I read also stressed how modern computer technology assisted greatly in the development of the p.2002. Using computer models, the movement's run time could be accelerated and any potential problems with long term running could be eliminated. Anyway, as you can tell, I am very impressed with the p.2002 movement and think Panerai really engineerd a well designed movement. IMHO, the 233 or 268 is worth the $$$ for what you get.

10 July 2008, 05:00 AM	#4
Teofilo Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Real Name: Peter Location: East Anglia Watch: 14060M,16710 PEPSI Posts: 923	Great article Chad. I love the Radiomirs and the 268 will be high on my list in a couple of years time. Anyone got any wrist shots ? Mik, have you gone off the idea of a 242 ?

10 July 2008, 12:07 PM	#7
WatchTimes 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: JYogi/Jeremy Location: Metro Detroit USA Watch: It's a Rolex! Posts: 5,787	Leopardprey, Thank you for the GREAT post and info! I had no clue about that. What can you tell me about the movement in the 270? Of the two which would you get and why. I like the Radiomir's BUT part of my attraction to Panerai's are the crown guard. I also think its VERY cool how they put the date magnifier inside, Rolex should look at that on some of their watches. I bought a Rolex SD just because I did not want the cyclops of the Sub (and I just like the SD). I am considering taking off the cyclops when I get an Exp II

10 July 2008, 12:48 PM	#8
brainbizz Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 608	I almost pulled the trigger on a 270 but in the end felt the symmetry of the 233 was better without the nine. My taste have evolved away from the automatic movements to the manual wind. The eight day movement is great and the 233 i was the first with that movement then the 268 j. I have both. I hopefully will also obtain a 317. The 270 just to me is not different enough to justify both. I bagged the 270 and got on the list for the Fer 024 as well as the special editions.

11 July 2008, 05:11 AM	#12
Teofilo Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Real Name: Peter Location: East Anglia Watch: 14060M,16710 PEPSI Posts: 923	This is such a great thread ! Just about my favourite since the Panerai section was created a few months ago.......wonderful pictures / info / views !!!!!!

11 July 2008, 08:25 AM	#15
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	If you take price away, though that is a factor as the 270 is several thousand more, then I still prefer the 233. Though this is just a personal choice, as the 270 is a great watch. I personally like the manual wind movement. Not many 8 day manual winds out there. I also like only the 6 and 12 hour marker on the 233 and also like how the day/night indicator in the seconds sub-dial is, compared to the am/pm indicators on the 270.

11 July 2008, 09:22 AM	#16
WatchTimes 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: JYogi/Jeremy Location: Metro Detroit USA Watch: It's a Rolex! Posts: 5,787	Thank you. I never noticed the Day/Night vs the AM/PM. Id love to see a pic of the 233 in both Day and then one in Night mode if anyone can??? Are the cases the same? I know they are both 44 mm but in the limited pics I have seen for some reason the 233 looks bigger. Neither have the cyclops inside it seems? Not that big of a deal as overall I don't care for a cyclops BUT I really do like how Panerai has them inside and would have liked it BUT oh well.... The 8 day manual power reserve is amazing but then again so is the 10 day BUT I must admit overall I am partial to the dial on the 233. I guess my lazy butt can get used to winding it every 8 days... haha __________________ "You won't rise to the occasion - you'll default to your level of training." Barrett Tillman Kentucky Colonel, Tennessee Squire & Combat Leprechaun

11 July 2008, 10:47 AM	#17
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	BOth are 44mm cases. No cyclops on the 233 or 270. Actually I prefer to not have the cyclops, as I have found that the innner cyclops project a little speck of purple light on the cyclops due to the infraction the cyclops has. The speck gets kind of annoying after awhile.

11 July 2008, 12:53 PM	#20
WatchTimes 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: JYogi/Jeremy Location: Metro Detroit USA Watch: It's a Rolex! Posts: 5,787	Is the 233 like a Rolex in that you can't overwind and screw up the watch easily? Do you have to release the lock/lever to wind it or is that just to set it? Thanks, sorry if these questions seem stupid but as I said I do not know much about Pans __________________ "You won't rise to the occasion - you'll default to your level of training." Barrett Tillman Kentucky Colonel, Tennessee Squire & Combat Leprechaun

11 July 2008, 01:15 PM	#21
GBJIV "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: Jackson Location: So. California Posts: 2,893	I have the 177 ti - love it. You do have to release the lock/lever to wind them. I think that is a fact on all Pan watches. Not sure about the overwinding but, would love to know - I always worry about over winding mine. __________________ Jackson

11 July 2008, 02:10 PM	#22
brainbizz Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 608	The watches were designed so you do not have to unlock the crown to wind due to the possibility of altering the time while diving. To my knowledge they cannot be overwound.

12 July 2008, 06:09 AM	#24
HKperf "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA Watch: 16710 M Coke Posts: 367	my favorite is 233 jeremy~!! 233 has everything i'm looking for in panerai's manual, 1950 case, GMT with date wheel, display case back and hmmm what else, oh..don't have to wind everyday..

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