I HATE WHEN RSC's SWAP PARTS WITHOUT PERMISSION! To me it's a BIG Issue!

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by jeffgo888

Ok, so I guess, ONE question:

1). You have a vintage valuable watch. You send it in for service to RSC.
a) YOU are specific that THEY DO NOT replace any original materials.
If they do, then is THAT NOT a basis for a lawsuit? If it devalues your property, it's property damage.

b) If you do NOT specify, and they replace, then you do not have a ground to stand on.

For me, it seems simple. I send it in, they DO the WORK I ask them to do. If they deviate and it destroys the value of my property, then that is the basis of a legal claim.
it is OUR property. period.
We are the consumer, the customer.

just my 2 cents

I appreciate your input and I know this sounds like it would work in theory but the only winners in this scenario would be the lawyers. The legal costs of fighting Rolex would easily be $800/hour. I can't imagine getting out of that nightmare without loosing $50-100k for round one and then they'd appeal. No attorney would take this on a contingent basis for an individual. Rolex would be seasoned at being in the ring and would crush you or me just by stringing the whole thing out if nothing out if nothing else. It would have to be a class action suit and even with a "win" all the real money would go to legal fees. This would be a case of the treatment being worse than the disease. You may disagree and that's fine but I can't imagine a law suit against Rolex as a way to come out on top.

Honestly, when I read your words about sending a vintage piece in to Rolex for service I cringed a bit inside at the thought of it. They are so big and there are probably so many hands, new dings and scratches that can happen that they probably have to "polish" it out at the end of the experience. I'm sure they are careful but at the end of the day they don't know if a scratch was there when it came in or they did it so I can see how the free polish policy came to be. It's no wonder these pieces come back without lugs. My first Rolex has a pretty deep scratch on the clasp that I put there. They'd have to polish the clasp way down to get rid of it. I see lots of Rolex watches for sale that have lost the definition of their clasp and I'm sure this is how that happens. I'd much rather keep the scratch on the clasp. Just to polish out the scratches a lot of these watches come in with is going to lead to lots of shiny but over polished watches. Since posting this thread I've had some people PM me and telling me the Patek experience is much different. I can believe that. The main thing I'd like to see which I think is reasonable is to know Rolex wouldn't change hands, dials or bezels that I didn't want changed because it changes the watch. The term Frankenwatch gets thrown around a lot here for watches people alter but really Rolex spits them out on a daily basis. I, and I'm sure many others, don't want even their modern original Rolex watch coming back to them as a shiny overpolished Frankenwatch. Once again thanks to everyone for reading and especially your participation in this thread.

Russell

[jeffgo888]

Originally Posted by Ckci

I appreciate your input and I know this sounds like it would work in theory but the only winners in this scenario would be the lawyers. The legal costs of fighting Rolex would easily be $800/hour. I can't imagine getting out of that nightmare without loosing $50-100k for round one and then they'd appeal. No attorney would take this on a contingent basis for an individual. Rolex would be seasoned at being in the ring and would crush you or me just by stringing the whole thing out if nothing out if nothing else. It would have to be a class action suit and even with a "win" all the real money would go to legal fees. This would be a case of the treatment being worse than the disease. You may disagree and that's fine but I can't imagine a law suit against Rolex as a way to come out on top.

Honestly, when I read your words about sending a vintage piece in to Rolex for service I cringed a bit inside at the thought of it. They are so big and there are probably so many hands, new dings and scratches that can happen that they probably have to "polish" it out at the end of the experience. I'm sure they are careful but at the end of the day they don't know if a scratch was there when it came in or they did it so I can see how the free polish policy came to be. It's no wonder these pieces come back without lugs. My first Rolex has a pretty deep scratch on the clasp that I put there. They'd have to polish the clasp way down to get rid of it. I see lots of Rolex watches for sale that have lost the definition of their clasp and I'm sure this is how that happens. I'd much rather keep the scratch on the clasp. Just to polish out the scratches a lot of these watches come in with is going to lead to lots of shiny but over polished watches. Since posting this thread I've had some people PM me and telling me the Patek experience is much different. I can believe that. The main thing I'd like to see which I think is reasonable is to know Rolex wouldn't change hands, dials or bezels that I didn't want changed because it changes the watch. The term Frankenwatch gets thrown around a lot here for watches people alter but really Rolex spits them out on a daily basis. I, and I'm sure many others, don't want even their modern original Rolex watch coming back to them as a shiny overpolished Frankenwatch. Once again thanks to everyone for reading and especially your participation in this thread.

Russell

I was actuaklly referring more of a small-claims suit, which i have been a plaintiff several times and never lost.
The idea is, would they settle with you, or have them spend thousands of dollars on lawyers while you spend $200 filing the claim? Plus your time of course. I can give you more insight on PM.
I think the point is, to make them accountable for what they did.
This is what we have the legal system for.

In the end, as a customer, if I believe that I was severely wronged, I would fight for it. If you do not feel as strong, then move on.

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by jeffgo888

I was actuaklly referring more of a small-claims suit, which i have been a plaintiff several times and never lost.
The idea is, would they settle with you, or have them spend thousands of dollars on lawyers while you spend $200 filing the claim? Plus your time of course. I can give you more insight on PM.
I think the point is, to make them accountable for what they did.
This is what we have the legal system for.

In the end, as a customer, if I believe that I was severely wronged, I would fight for it. If you do not feel as strong, then move on.

Congrats on winning cases in small claims court.

[SamiKssiaa]

Jewellers on time

/thread

[dexvd]

So I guess the question is, how to we effectively reach out to RSC enmass to express our concerns and desire for change or improvement? I have seen threads on here where individuals owners have been in contact with Rolex themselves over issues that concern them about their individual watch. If there are several of us participating and we reach out to the right department/person that is involved with RSC in USA and Canada, maybe we can influence a change or clarify RSC's position or how we can avoid having changes done to our watches that we do not desire?

We have to pay a premium for a vintage service, should we not expect 'premium service', more control over what is done, etc rather than having our vintage watches treated the same as they would a 6 year old Rolex having a cheaper 'non-vintage' service?

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by dexvd

So I guess the question is, how to we effectively reach out to RSC enmass to express our concerns and desire for change or improvement? I have seen threads on here where individuals owners have been in contact with Rolex themselves over issues that concern them about their individual watch. If there are several of us participating and we reach out to the right department/person that is involved with RSC in USA and Canada, maybe we can influence a change or clarify RSC's position or how we can avoid having changes done to our watches that we do not desire?

We have to pay a premium for a vintage service, should we not expect 'premium service', more control over what is done, etc rather than having our vintage watches treated the same as they would a 6 year old Rolex having a cheaper 'non-vintage' service?

Thanks for interjecting an action oriented line of thinking. I also believe if enough of us unify we have the power to be agents of meaningful change. Anyone else who is interested in trying to make a difference just let me know here or via a PM. It's really not worth it to bring along those who are apathetic reguarding this particular issue or already self defeated. We all have our own unique causes and preferences.

Russell

[dexvd]

Originally Posted by Ckci

Thanks for interjecting an action oriented line of thinking. I also believe if enough of us unify we have the power to be agents of meaningful change. Anyone else who is interested in trying to make a difference just let me know here or via a PM. It's really not worth it to bring along those who are apathetic reguarding this particular issue or already self defeated. We all have our own unique causes and preferences.

Russell

I think a lot of the opposition to this is likely come from those who are having modern watches serviced maybe under 20 years old, that likely don't have much of a chance of becoming collectible or appreciating in value over time.

These Rolex owners are also not paying the more expensive 'Vintage' RSC fee for the service of their watches. So not only are they paying for and receiving a different service, they don't have any of the potential value to lose and are therefore happy to have their watch hands upgraded to the most recent style, etc. Its confusing to me as to why they would be oppositional to increased understanding on the part of Rolex and perhaps an additional form that would better address the service wants of others for their watches, when paying RSC to service their watch.

Maybe this should be a discussion in the vintage forum but either way I am on board in voicing my concerns individually or as a group to the correct person that would hear and could potentially address these issues in regards to RSC. I myself would love to see the change at RSC Toronto and am not sure if they would fall under a different management than the American RSCs.

I plan to buy several more vintage Rolexs in the future and the unfortunate reality is that few independents have a sufficient stock of Rolex parts and those that do are at least in the majority, located in the states rather than Canada. Leaving me in the position to risk sending my watch through international mail and back and forth through customs twice or to risk it with the Toronto RSC. Its a frustrating position to be in for a brand as prolific as Rolex.

[Meme-Dweller]

lol @ thinking it should be considered a felony. Because you know, replacing your original hands with an updated genuine Rolex set of hands is on the same level as murder.

We take this hobby too seriously sometimes.

[artschool]

Originally Posted by 6R15

lol @ thinking it should be considered a felony. Because you know, replacing your original hands with an updated genuine Rolex set of hands is on the same level as murder.

We take this hobby too seriously sometimes.

And if thou gaze long into an Rolex, the Rolex will also gaze into thee

[gtnator]

I agree and am on board with this! Thanks for starting this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cenzor]

Your thread reminded me aboit something I posted some time ago:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=399560

No one could give me a definite answers about what happens to the replaced parts in the RSCs..

[dexvd]

Originally Posted by cenzor

Your thread reminded me aboit something I posted some time ago:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=399560

No one could give me a definite answers about what happens to the replaced parts in the RSCs..

Like that guys case who had his dial put back to original, I shipped my GMT back to RSC Toronto after service was completed and they changed the bezel and they put my original bezel back on as they did in this guy's case, that was referenced in the thread you shared http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...=399600&page=2

So they at least hold onto the parts temporarily and seem to have some track of what parts came from whose watch even after a few weeks have passed (the time for my watch to be shipped back to my AD for me to receive).

[subtona]

Originally Posted by dexvd

Like that guys case who had his dial put back to original, I shipped my GMT back to RSC Toronto after service was completed and they changed the bezel and they put my original bezel back on as they did in this guy's case, that was referenced in the thread you shared http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...=399600&page=2

So they at least hold onto the parts temporarily and seem to have some track of what parts came from whose watch even after a few weeks have passed (the time for my watch to be shipped back to my AD for me to receive).

So would it be unreasonable to believe there is an awareness on the part of RSC when they swap out a part that has some known significance?

[Porter]

Russell!....I love this thread!! Nice when I cannot stop smiling while reading.
Thanks.

[subtona]

Another point to consider is that more than a few of the vintage service resources that have been recommended and used over the last few years have had some very unhappy customers. Ie it is not as easy as some make it seem to find a resource outside of RSC for satisfactory service with access to oem parts where available.

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by dexvd

I think a lot of the opposition to this is likely come from those who are having modern watches serviced maybe under 20 years old, that likely don't have much of a chance of becoming collectible or appreciating in value over time.

These Rolex owners are also not paying the more expensive 'Vintage' RSC fee for the service of their watches. So not only are they paying for and receiving a different service, they don't have any of the potential value to lose and are therefore happy to have their watch hands upgraded to the most recent style, etc. Its confusing to me as to why they would be oppositional to increased understanding on the part of Rolex and perhaps an additional form that would better address the service wants of others for their watches, when paying RSC to service their watch.

Maybe this should be a discussion in the vintage forum but either way I am on board in voicing my concerns individually or as a group to the correct person that would hear and could potentially address these issues in regards to RSC. I myself would love to see the change at RSC Toronto and am not sure if they would fall under a different management than the American RSCs.

I plan to buy several more vintage Rolexs in the future and the unfortunate reality is that few independents have a sufficient stock of Rolex parts and those that do are at least in the majority, located in the states rather than Canada. Leaving me in the position to risk sending my watch through international mail and back and forth through customs twice or to risk it with the Toronto RSC. Its a frustrating position to be in for a brand as prolific as Rolex.

Originally Posted by cenzor

Your thread reminded me aboit something I posted some time ago:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=399560

No one could give me a definite answers about what happens to the replaced parts in the RSCs..

Originally Posted by Porter

Russell!....I love this thread!! Nice when I cannot stop smiling while reading.
Thanks.

Originally Posted by subtona

Another point to consider is that more than a few of the vintage service resources that have been recommended and used over the last few years have had some very unhappy customers. Ie it is not as easy as some make it seem to find a resource outside of RSC for satisfactory service with access to oem parts where available.

Thanks so much for the support! Dexvd whether Toronto RSC is in the same organization or not I'll do whatever I can to help not only for US customers but those who live anywhere. To me it's an even bigger issue for those who live outside the U.S. and I especially feel for their plight.


Russell

[Ckci]

This is a thread I've become aware of through the link above by Cenzor. I've asked Rusty to join us here who had his 16750 Matte tritium dial replaced with what sounds like a Luminova service dial. Thankfully here was able to get a matte trutium dial back. His receipt didn't even bother to mention that they swaped out his dial.
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...=399600&page=2
Does anyone know if we can start a group within the confines of TRF where we can get together to discuss the best way to collectively approach Rolex?

[Ckci]

Gus, I really appreciate your insight. I will also say that I've received a number of PM's from people who are pillars of this forum informing me of the incredibly bad experiences they have had with the RSC's and it's worse than I thought. I am now less convinced that a form can really help except that maybe fewer beautiful historic dials and bezels will end up in the RSC's trash bins or wherever else they end up. I have a hard time understanding how anyone could purposely erase their own great history to the degree the RSC's seem to. As I said earlier the one thing is does is increase the value of the original pieces I and others have, but honestly I'd trade the increased value to have more fine original pieces around for more people to enjoy!

The swiping of dials that can run into the many thousands of dollars being swaped for cheap white luminova dials that are worth a few hundred is serious. Any of you that don't think so can send me all of your 4 and 5 digit Rolexes with perfect dials with lots of dirty looking patina and I will send them back to you with brand spanking new luminova dials, without your permission of course. You can thank me later. It is great to know none of you would consider that a felony theft.

[beshannon]

Sorry I stopped reading at "dangerous practice"

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by ppbskis

You nailed it! When a watch is fairly fresh it doesn't matter. If it's a vintage piece that's a whole nother ballgame. As I had posted earlier, I wish I had known that the original face was vital to the originality of my 11800.
It's a different time now, I think many believe that they have acquired future classics and will strive to maintain originality going forward.

Thanks and I agree. Also I'd like to say I consider Droptopman to be a friend from the vintage discussion side. He has some beautiful watches. The pics of his minty 5513 are some of my favorite on TRF. Did I forget to mention it has a gilt dial I also think owners of both old and new Rolex watches should be able to get their watch(es) serviced without the fear of having the original dials and bezels strongarmed away from them.

Originally Posted by Cimballi

I am the biggest proponent of discussion forums and I consider that there is more valuable information accumulated in a forum like this one that in any other place on the web.
This said, just like ANY service provider, a Rolex RSC must have a contract which indicates very specifically the extent of the service provided and whether or not the replaced parts will be given back to the watch owner or will be recycled.
All one need to do is to request and read the contract before signing the work order.
As for solving a problematics situation after the facts and unless specifically indicated in a contract the owner is entitled to request that the RSC puts the original parts back into the watch and take legal action if things are not done as they should. As a data point a vintage Rolex dial can be worth thousands of dollars.

In conclusion, there is no need to check years of chatter on this forum to handle properly the process with an RSC, although it may help raise awareness of potential issues.

As for "burning bridges" with God...hum..a Rolex RSC, I find this irrelevant at best. I have a few others words for it but I would be allowed this use them here.

Thanks for your thoughtful post! You covered a lot of ground in a succinct fashion. I could obviously learn something from you in this regard. Speaking to your last paragraph, I'd like to offer a special thanks and say that anytime someone takes a stand on something meaningful he or she needs to be willing pay accept some costs. I never want to be the person who cowers in the corner because it may cost me something to say what I believe is right.

Originally Posted by beshannon

Sorry I stopped reading at "dangerous practice"

LOL! Atleast you got that far! Clearly this thread is not for everyone but it has received more than 4k clicks in about 3 days even if it means 3,900 of them disagree with me. One of my goals is to let people know there are potential unanticipated costs that may come with sending your watch to a RSC.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Ckci

One of my goals is to let people know there are potential unanticipated costs that may come with sending your watch to a RSC.

Does Rolex no longer send an estimate that details the work to be done? Or do they just trash parts without permission and disclosure?

[dexvd]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Does Rolex no longer send an estimate that details the work to be done? Or do they just trash parts without permission and disclosure?

I didn't receive an estimate or any communication between when I sent it in for a 'vintage' service and when I got it back.

[RHJ]

Originally Posted by ckci

does anyone agree?

Sincerely,
russell

100%

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by RHJ

100%

Thanks! I really appreciate it!
Russell

[busytimmy]

And this is one of the reasons I'm scared to go vintage. Especially now since it is near impossible for independents to gain access to Rolex parts.

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Does Rolex no longer send an estimate that details the work to be done? Or do they just trash parts without permission and disclosure?

It's a fair question. They should and you would think they would. Btw that's an impressive collection you have there.

Originally Posted by dexvd

I didn't receive an estimate or any communication between when I sent it in for a 'vintage' service and when I got it back.

Thanks Dexvd my friend for answering it based on your first hand experience. Unfortunately this happens at least somewhat regularly it seems.

Originally Posted by busytimmy

And this is one of the reasons I'm scared to go vintage. Especially now since it is near impossible for independents to gain access to Rolex parts.

And that is a shame. Plus very acceptable parts it seems are being destroyed making it that much harder to restore an original dial to a watch that a RSC has slapped a service or some other new dial on in place of the original dial.