FAKE: FS: Rolex Submariner Date 116610 Ceramic Bezel Worn 10 Times Box Tag Spare Link

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by dera

Taiwan used to be another place where a lot of these "super fakes" come from.
Swiss fakes are an urban myth, something I don't believe before seeing proof.

Taiwan is China - so were the quality of their fakes.

S Korea are making Super Fakes.

"urban myth"? Maybe 12 or 6 months ago, not now!

Why you think the SWISS can not make a fake?

I have seen, touched these pieces! This Pawn group who open every watch got duped.

"Urban Myth"? No more

[dysondiver]

as above , i think the swiss part is just marketing. ,,, swiz fakes is closer to the truth.

But if Adam has seen them , ill gladly stand corrected.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by dera

Taiwan used to be another place where a lot of these "super fakes" come from.
Swiss fakes are an urban myth, something I don't believe before seeing proof.

Originally Posted by dysondiver

as above , i think the swiss part is just marketing. ,,, swiz fakes is closer to the truth.

Yep. Same thing a while back when you would see counterfeit 18K bracelets being sold/marketed as "Italian made", lol. Yeaaaah, sure, lol.

Oh and to clarify, I meant SE Asia as in the entire region, not just SE mainland China (although a LOT of fakes come out of there specifically).
Taiwan definitely was/is another hotbed in the region, and we have been seeing some very convincing fakes/parts come out of Vietnam and Singapore for a while now too.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Why you think the SWISS can not make a fake?

I have seen, touched these pieces! This Pawn group who open every watch got duped.

"Urban Myth"? No more

It's not that the Swiss "can't" make fakes. Surely there are plenty of folks there with the capability.
However, the watch culture and regulation/laws/punishments for counterfeiting are much different in Switzerland than they are in most countries in SE Asia.
Also, labor costs/wages in Switzerland are among the highest anywhere in the World. The cost of labor to produce fakes in Switzerland makes the issue a non-starter.

As mentioned, when you hear "Swiss" associated with fakes, it is BS IMO. The only possible exception being those that use Swiss-made movements (typically ETA).
That still doesn't make it "Swiss made", and even then it's usually BS, and they are using fake/cloned ETA movements.

So, the only way I am buying your story is if you were actually in Switzerland witnessing them being produced there.
Or with the examples you mentioned, you were privy to every step in the chain-of-custody from Swiss manufacturer to dealer/seller/end-user (in this case a pawn shop apparently). Otherwise, don't believe it.

[Kiaraff]

Good job!

[marcusjcw21]

I will personally guarantee (without verification) that there are probably some individuals in Switzerland who have put together some very convincing counterfeits that we will never know about because they were so good. I can't imagine, though, anybody setting up all the equipment and tooling necessary to mass produce counterfeit Rolex movements in Switzerland. The amount of the investment would be staggering. No legitimate company could undertake such a project because their employees would end up turning them in. Southeast Asia is a different story. Someone told me that Vietnam has no intellectual property rights laws. I didn't research it at all, so I don't know if I believe that. I have heard of counterfeiting (replica) raids in China, but they are few are far between.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by freefly

It's not that the Swiss "can't" make fakes. Surely there are plenty of folks there with the capability.
However, the watch culture and regulation/laws/punishments for counterfeiting are much different in Switzerland than they are in most countries in SE Asia.
Also, labor costs/wages in Switzerland are among the highest anywhere in the World. The cost of labor to produce fakes in Switzerland makes the issue a non-starter.

As mentioned, when you hear "Swiss" associated with fakes, it is BS IMO. The only possible exception being those that use Swiss-made movements (typically ETA).
That still doesn't make it "Swiss made", and even then it's usually BS, and they are using fake/cloned ETA movements.

So, the only way I am buying your story is if you were actually in Switzerland witnessing them being produced there.
Or with the examples you mentioned, you were privy to every step in the chain-of-custody from Swiss manufacturer to dealer/seller/end-user (in this case a pawn shop apparently). Otherwise, don't believe it.

Thats fine to me - I am never pushing my opinion/knowledge on anyone.

Only to ask based ion this

":Also, labor costs/wages in Switzerland are among the highest anywhere in the World. The cost of labor to produce fakes in Switzerland makes the issue a non-starter."

Do you know what these SWISS fakes sell for?

[marcusjcw21]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Do you know what these SWISS fakes sell for?

My guess would be that they are so good, that they would be selling for AD prices minus a small discount

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by marcusjcw21

My guess would be that they are so good, that they would be selling for AD prices minus a small discount

Not quite but $1500.
So not cheap

[freefly]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Thats fine to me - I am never pushing my opinion/knowledge on anyone.

Only to ask based ion this

":Also, labor costs/wages in Switzerland are among the highest anywhere in the World. The cost of labor to produce fakes in Switzerland makes the issue a non-starter."

Do you know what these SWISS fakes sell for?

Well, if they were truly Swiss made, they would probably have to sell for multiple thousands of dollars for it be a viable/profitable endeavor. Again, that itself makes the issue largely a non-starter.
The only allure for buying any counterfeit good is cheaper cost. The higher you price a fake, the (exponentially) smaller the pool of potential buyers becomes.

So again, unless you were actually in Switzerland witnessing them being produced there, or were privy to every step in the chain-of-custody first-hand to trace them back to a Swiss manufacturer, then I am not convinced.

Are either of those scenarios true in the case of the examples you mentioned, or are you simply going by what someone is telling you?

[Dr.Brian]

With proper tooling, good materials, and some real QC, the Chinese could make anything to any quality. There is no need to set up some high volume fake watch business in Switzerland, where there are enforced laws, high costs, etc. It is easy though to produce high quality reproductions in China, complete with slave labor wages and easily bribed officials. Who would want to make fake watches in Switzerland? It's a dumb idea on many levels. Of course the sellers of these counterfeit goods will tell you and everyone else anything to help make the sale. Hand assembled, custom refinished, whatever. Maybe some are. I would hope so for $1500. (But it still took the slow boat from China.)

[Ouro9999]

I think it does not matter where it was made, its a good fake and for me that do not have a trained eyes could very well get into trouble. They are getting better everyday, and this is very scary.

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[freefly]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Not quite but $1500.
So not cheap

There have been a few "Swiss 1:1 clones" in the past that claimed to be manufactured in Switzerland as well, around that same price-point. None of them were actually Swiss made.

It's funny, nobody can ever produce a package/tracking label/unboxing video/etc. for an actual Swiss-made fake. There must be some super-secret underground fencing operation that sends them all to China first, lol...

[freefly]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brian

With proper tooling, good materials, and some real QC, the Chinese could make anything to any quality. There is no need to set up some high volume fake watch business in Switzerland, where there are enforced laws, high costs, etc. It is easy though to produce high quality reproductions in China, complete with slave labor wages and easily bribed officials. Who would want to make fake watches in Switzerland? It's a dumb idea on many levels. Of course the sellers of these counterfeit goods will tell you and everyone else anything to help make the sale. Hand assembled, custom refinished, whatever. Maybe some are. I would hope so for $1500. (But it still took the slow boat from China.)

Exactly.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by freefly

There have been a few "Swiss 1:1 clones" in the past that claimed to be manufactured in Switzerland as well, around that same price-point. None of them were actually Swiss made.

How you know all this.?
Have you been to China to verify? I have
Have you got some evidence that they were not made in Switzerland? I have?

Of course me evidence may be fake, but I personally do not think so.

Going to bed
A

[freefly]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Have you got some evidence that they were not made in Switzerland? I have?

Of course me evidence may be fake, but I personally do not think so.

You are the one who made the claim that there are Swiss-made "ultra super fakes". So, I'd say it's on you to back that statement up.

Please show me where I can buy these fakes directly from Switzerland.
Please show me ANY evidence that they are being produced there (other than marketing hype/BS from the counterfeit re-sellers).

Also, as previously requested, why don't you post some pictures of these "unicorn" Swiss ultra-super-fakes?
Surely if you were studying them with an electron microscope and/or using them as an example for one of your classes you would have taken pictures to use as reference material yes? Well, lets seem some!

[77T]

So let me get this straight - the thread about a fake 116610 (which has been resolved) has now becoming a new gratuitous discussion of fakes - and members are beginning to get all huffy and challenging each other's statements?

Really?


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[Meme-Dweller]

This thread has proved that 1) Buy the seller

That's it. No additional steps.