Shell strap authenticity from Bruce and Donna Ginsberg?

[eyeheartny]

I recently purchased a strap for my brand-new PAM 422 from Bruce and Donna Ginsberg that purported to be Horween shell cordovan. I own numerous pairs of Alden shell cordovan shoes and am quite familiar how the material looks and behaves in footwear. There are a number of things about this strap that seems suspect to me, including how supple it is immediately (my shell shoes have taken a long while for the uppers to soften), the lack of color depth, and the stamp on the underside of the strap. The stamp doesn't look like the standard Horween stamp, and the trademark symbol that is normally above the N in Horween is adjacent to it. Horween also tries to have small portions of the larger stamp on most parts of the underside of the shell, and yet that is not visible on this strap. If I had to guess, I'd think the strap was one of the "imitation" shell cordovan materials that are a coated calf or other such thing.

Has anyone here purchased a shell strap from Bruce and Donna, and if so, are you convinced of its authenticity? I don't want to cast aspersions on them since they've been around a while selling in the PAM scene from what I can tell, but this just doesn't pass the smell test for me. Would be grateful for thoughts!

[Al1969]

Post some pics and I'm sure someone will come along with help.

[red1108nyc]

If it does not feel right, just ask for a return. Bruce is not going to upset anyone over a strap. They have been around a long time. This type matter should be taken off line and discussed between seller and buyer privately.

[77T]

Originally Posted by red1108nyc

If it does not feel right, just ask for a return. Bruce is not going to upset anyone over a strap. They have been around a long time. This type matter should be taken off line and discussed between seller and buyer privately.

Agree 100%

[mfer]

I don't know crap about shell cordovan, but I can tell you I trust Bruce above anyone else on the market. Please talk to Bruce and Donna if you have concerns.

Regarding shoes compared to straps, I don't think that is an equal comparison. Different craftsmanship, different tooling. Again not an expert, but a strap is a flat strip of leather, shoes take much more working and polish.

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by eyeheartny

Has anyone here purchased a shell strap from Bruce and Donna, and if so, are you convinced of its authenticity? I don't want to cast aspersions on them since they've been around a while selling in the PAM scene from what I can tell, but this just doesn't pass the smell test for me. Would be grateful for thoughts!

Of course you did....call Bruce and ask for a refund before accusing him of selling fake straps.

[eyeheartny]

Yikes-- didn't meant to "poke the bear" and offend anyone here. I should have clarified that if it isn't shell they may not even know it. There's a lot of faux shell on the market. Anyhow, I've contacted them and we're arranging a refund.

Anyone know how I can delete this thread? There's no edit button at the top and nowhere I can see to do it. Mods, can you delete please?

[TimeToGo]

This thread shows the seller backs the product based on an allegation, which may not be true.
It says a lot about their business!!!

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by eyeheartny

Anyhow, I've contacted them and we're arranging a refund.

you should have done this before posting....just saying.

[eyeheartny]

Originally Posted by fullcourt

you should have done this before posting....just saying.

I was asking a question about other people's experiences. Since then, I have asked mods to delete the thread in a message after reporting my own thread. I've acknowledged that my post was potentially inflammatory.

What else would you like me to do?

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by eyeheartny

I was asking a question about other people's experiences. Since then, I have asked mods to delete the thread in a message after reporting my own thread. I've acknowledged that my post was potentially inflammatory.

What else would you like me to do?

nothing....the potential damage is already done

hagd

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by fullcourt

nothing....the potential damage is already done

hagd

Fair point, but at the same time the Ginsbergs have arranged a refund, which says a lot about their service.

I think Mik's recommendation of Bruce Ginsberg will carry a lot of weight too, so not all bad. I would use them on the basis of his post

[77T]

Maybe the best thing is I have found a new strap supplier to add to my current ones. Anyone have a link to their website?

Right now, the top hit on Google for cordovan straps with their name is this thread...

[rebel_1]

I'm pretty sure he / they are a member here and Trusted Seller, Watches24Seven.

http://www.watches24seven.com/gallery2/main.php

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by 77T

Maybe the best thing is I have found a new strap supplier to add to my current ones. Anyone have a link to their website?

Right now, the top hit on Google for cordovan straps with their name is this thread...

remarkable, isn't it....lol

[mfer]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

Fair point, but at the same time the Ginsbergs have arranged a refund, which says a lot about their service.

I think Mik's recommendation of Bruce Ginsberg will carry a lot of weight too, so not all bad. I would use them on the basis of his post

[Watches24seven]

Rolex Forum Readers,

Let me start with Watches 24 Seven LLC only sells what it advertises. The Horween Shell Cordovan straps that we sell, and the one Namir received are made of Horween shell cordovan. We do not add inferior leather liners on our straps, so the entire strap is Horween shell cordovan. As a matter of fact, the Horween company only allows our straps to be stamped with our own Horween Shell Cordovan trade marked stamp. The Horween company is completely aware that we are authorized dealers for the straps we sell in with their fine name is applied. I am almost certain Mr. Horween wears one of my straps on his Panerai.

Next, Horween has more than one style of stamp. Their stamps are almost never applied evenly. The one on our hides is actually the more common. The stamps are applied to the underside of the hide and do not cover the entire hide. We use as much of the hide as possible, so many straps do not have the factory Horween stamp, which is why we received permission to add an additional stamp.

Our straps are more supple than shoes, because the leather is not stretched and sewn pulling the fibers in opposite directions like they are on your shoes. We go to great lengths to have our straps made with great care by fine craftsman in Germany.

Let me also point out, that Namir emailed us telling us the same sentiments that he posted here. We told him our supplier had been contacted and that he would get back to him about his concerns. But before waiting for a response from our supplier, the strap was sent back to us. Namir was refunded in full immediately, no questions asked. All of our emails from Namir as well as the ones we sent to him were professional and polite.

Thanks to all of you who defended my character and service.

Sincerely,
Bruce Ginsberg

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by Watches24seven

Rolex Forum Readers,

Let me start with Watches 24 Seven LLC only sells what it advertises. The Horween Shell Cordovan straps that we sell, and the one Namir received are made of Horween shell cordovan. We do not add inferior leather liners on our straps, so the entire strap is Horween shell cordovan. As a matter of fact, the Horween company only allows our straps to be stamped with our own Horween Shell Cordovan trade marked stamp. The Horween company is completely aware that we are authorized dealers for the straps we sell in with their fine name is applied. I am almost certain Mr. Horween wears one of my straps on his Panerai.

Next, Horween has more than one style of stamp. Their stamps are almost never applied evenly. The one on our hides is actually the more common. The stamps are applied to the underside of the hide and do not cover the entire hide. We use as much of the hide as possible, so many straps do not have the factory Horween stamp, which is why we received permission to add an additional stamp.

Our straps are more supple than shoes, because the leather is not stretched and sewn pulling the fibers in opposite directions like they are on your shoes. We go to great lengths to have our straps made with great care by fine craftsman in Germany.

Let me also point out, that Namir emailed us telling us the same sentiments that he posted here. We told him our supplier had been contacted and that he would get back to him about his concerns. But before waiting for a response from our supplier, the strap was sent back to us. Namir was refunded in full immediately, no questions asked. All of our emails from Namir as well as the ones we sent to him were professional and polite.

Thanks to all of you who defended my character and service.

Sincerely,
Bruce Ginsberg

Always a class act Bruce....

Always

[kilyung]

Bruce is above board

[Speed]

Oh boy...now I have to see what these Horween straps are all about.

Nice to hear of a good source!

[TempoKing]

I had no clue what they were...until I read this
https://toshi-straps.co.uk/shell-cordovan-leather/

[Speed]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

I had no clue what they were...until I read this
https://toshi-straps.co.uk/shell-cordovan-leather/

Great read. Thanks!

I've purchased a few Toshi straps but never read this bit about Horween.

[red1108nyc]

Class Bruce!

Even without a Pam, I want to buy a Horween Shell Cordovan strap from Bruce & Donna!

[jhcam8]

If shell straps took as long to break in as shell shoes, no one could wear them.

Bruce is the man, btw.

[Ruud Van Driver]

I only wish everyone would set the record straight in such an eloquent, professional and respectful manner.

Mr. Ginsberg, you sir are the man