16610 on TZ - does this appear correct?

[Atone]

What do you folks opine on this piece? I've heard some rumbling that the transitional subs will be the next peg in collectible vintage. That aside, I would like a function watch to take in the ocean, pool, etc. if it gained equity, even better. Investment piece aside, how is the pricing and package here:

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...69#msg_7327518

[Colin10101]

The condition does look excellent. Lugs look factory fresh. The price is a bit high for an X serial, but I suppose you would be hard pressed to find another in that condition. I don't think the 16610 will ever become a rare collectible piece since there were many thousands produced over 20 or so years, but you really never know.

I would wear the heck out of that watch and get a nice patina going on the hands and dial. But do your due diligence - buy the seller first. That's the most important part.

[Atone]

He seems to have had dozens of transactions on TZ and we spoke on the phone today. What's a good way to vet a seller that one doesn't know? Ever have them drop the watch at a local AD or something of the like? Furthermore, for my own edification, what would a standard condition 16610 conplete set run in the private market?

[Atone]

couple of extra pics he sent me:

[Colin10101]

Originally Posted by Atone

He seems to have had dozens of transactions on TZ and we spoke on the phone today. What's a good way to vet a seller that one doesn't know? Ever have them drop the watch at a local AD or something of the like? Furthermore, for my own edification, what would a standard condition 16610 conplete set run in the private market?

If you can't meet face to face it's a bit tricky. You will kind of need to take a leap of faith. Follow up on references and go with your gut. You should get a feeling if something is a miss. It definitely doesn't hurt that he has been a TZ member for 10 years and has lots of posts, but I wouldn't blindly accept him as legit because of it.

In terms of the photos the piece looks good. Nothing screams fake to me. I think an X serial sub like that is probably valued closer to 5500-5750. I would see if you can drag him down to those prices.

Good luck and go with your gut.

[usrudiver932]

Looks like a wide 4 that normal?

[freefly]

Originally Posted by Atone

What do you folks opine on this piece? I've heard some rumbling that the transitional subs will be the next peg in collectible vintage. That aside, I would like a function watch to take in the ocean, pool, etc. if it gained equity, even better.

Looks nice, but I don't think I could justify the price for an older 16610, regardless. Maybe for something truly NOS or unworn, but that is not the case here. To me it looks like a quality refinish job, not the original finish. The print on the case-back sticker has been worn off, and there are a couple other minor signs of wear. There is a non-factory clear sticker on the back as well, which is common with watches that just received a refinish/polish. Also, if you look at the second-to-last pic in the listing (showing the side of the case opposite the winding crown), it looks like there maybe be some dings/gouges. Could just be a reflection, but I'd want to confirm.

Also, just to clarify, the 16610 isn't a transitional model. If you want a transitional model, you might seek out a 16800 instead, preferably with an early matte dial.

[yukosaturno]

that's a gorgeous watch,in excellent condition,and you can keep it like this,or you can use the hell out of it,wich i don't recommend,beacuse you could get a cheaper,more used watch and keep this to someone who would actually leave it as it is,it's hard to see something like this.

but this isn't transitional,if that's what you want,you're looking at a 16800 or 16800 (really rare,will go up in value quickly)

[yukosaturno]

Originally Posted by freefly

Looks nice, but I don't think I could justify the price for an older 16610, regardless. Maybe for something truly NOS or unworn, but that is not the case here. To me it looks like a quality refinish job, not the original finish. The print on the case-back sticker has been worn off, and there are a couple other minor signs of wear. There is a non-factory clear sticker on the back as well, which is common with watches that just received a refinish/polish. Also, if you look at the second-to-last pic in the listing (showing the side of the case opposite the winding crown), it looks like there maybe be some dings/gouges. Could just be a reflection, but I'd want to confirm.

Also, just to clarify, the 16610 isn't a transitional model. If you want a transitional model, you might seek out a 16800 instead, preferably with an early matte dial.

looking at other pictures,that looks just like dust or something like that,but def not dings.

the sticker on the back could be there so the original sticker won't come off,like a protective sticker,since the watch is unworn.

i dont know,i don't think i've ever seen such a good refinish job,looks factory to me...

[Atone]

so between this and an unpolished, excellent conditon 16710 w/coke bezel - all box and papers for $6k. which would be a better buy? I do want a watch that I can wear and not worry about. The GMT is from a local/trusted RF seller.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Atone

so between this and an unpolished, excellent conditon 16710 w/coke bezel - all box and papers for $6k. which would be a better buy? I do want a watch that I can wear and not worry about. The GMT is from a local/trusted RF seller.

Very personal
To me the GMT, it does everything a submariner does and more.
Both are iconic pieces but the coke or pepsi (in my case) does it for me

A

[freefly]

Originally Posted by yukosaturno

looking at other pictures,that looks just like dust or something like that,but def not dings.

Possibly, but I wouldn't say "def not dings" without confirmation. The pic I referenced looks like it could very well be pitting/dings.
Or, it could just be a reflection as I mentioned, or something else/dust as you mentioned. I'd just want to be sure.

Originally Posted by yukosaturno

the sticker on the back could be there so the original sticker won't come off,like a protective sticker,since the watch is unworn.

Possibly, but that watch is NOT unworn. If it were, the printing on the sticker would be intact.
Further, I'd say it's definitely been at least "lightly" refinished. The coronet on the clasp has definitely been "knocked down" a bit.
That said, it was probably in excellent condition to start with, and it's still a very nice looking piece...Just not for close to $6200 of MY dollars. YMMV there...

Originally Posted by yukosaturno

i dont know,i don't think i've ever seen such a good refinish job,looks factory to me...

As mentioned, it may have just been a light touch-up/polish.
However, there are certainly a few places that do very good work, which some would argue to be more "restoration" than simply "refinishing" (to include the correct/factory brushed and satin finishes, proper case chamfers, laser welding, etc.).
Folks like ABC, etc...

[Atone]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Very personal
To me the GMT, it does everything a submariner does and more.
Both are iconic pieces but the coke or pepsi (in my case) does it for me

A

I do love a splash of color in the insert.

[yukosaturno]

Originally Posted by freefly

Possibly, but I wouldn't say "def not dings" without confirmation. The pic I referenced looks like it could very well be pitting/dings.
Or, it could just be a reflection as I mentioned, or something else/dust as you mentioned. I'd just want to be sure.

Possibly, but that watch is NOT unworn. If it were, the printing on the sticker would be intact.
Further, I'd say it's definitely been at least "lightly" refinished. The coronet on the clasp has definitely been "knocked down" a bit.
That said, it was probably in excellent condition to start with, and it's still a very nice looking piece...Just not for close to $6200 of MY dollars. YMMV there...

As mentioned, it may have just been a light touch-up/polish.
However, there are certainly a few places that do very good work, which some would argue to be more "restoration" than simply "refinishing" (to include the correct/factory brushed and satin finishes, proper case chamfers, laser welding, etc.).
Folks like ABC, etc...

i def get were you're coming from and now agree with it,i've had already seen the lower coronet on the clasp,just wan't sure if it was really polished,and i would definetely want to be sure on the case,a ding like that would brake the deal for me.

i don't really know about the stick,i have one and it looks the same even tough it's a diferent watch.

the refinish tho,it's probably just light polishing or a masters job,looks really good!

[yukosaturno]

Originally Posted by Atone

so between this and an unpolished, excellent conditon 16710 w/coke bezel - all box and papers for $6k. which would be a better buy? I do want a watch that I can wear and not worry about. The GMT is from a local/trusted RF seller.

i would personally take the sub,because it's more usable for my tasks,but in this case,the gmt is better priced.

if it is going to be your tool watch,make sure the 16710 has lug holes,and then think what is best for you.

as far as timing,looks and durability goes,both are great watch,it all comes down to if you need the second timezone more than the diver's bezel,and as explained,i would want the diver's bezel wich is IMO very useful on my daily tasks.

also,you have the oportunity to change inserts and bracelet on the gmt.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by Atone

He seems to have had dozens of transactions on TZ and we spoke on the phone today. What's a good way to vet a seller that one doesn't know?

Buying a watch from a Timezone member is no different than buying from a TRF member. You MUST be able to trust the seller before going forward with a transaction. References, post history, forum tenure are all important.

[Atone]

Originally Posted by jrs146

Buying a watch from a Timezone member is no different than buying from a TRF member. You MUST be able to trust the seller before going forward with a transaction. References, post history, forum tenure are all important.

He's a member for 10 years on TZ and appears to have sold many pieces over those years. I don't know what their moderation practices are. If they are anything like RF I can't image he's been pulling shenanigans for a decade and still there.

[DBN]

My 1986, that I purchased new, but had the bezel insert replaced in 1994 looks different...