Red 1680 - Auctioned by Christie's

[joachimreimers]

As many on here, I was looking forward to this past weekends auctions. Some amazing pieces, world records broker - but also to gauge pricing and demand on the low/mid-level vintage Rolexs.

As I have recently become a Red 1680 owner myself, I was quite surprised to be see two examples listed by Christie's - Lots 251 and 252.

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/w...3-5c454c047d5f

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/w...3-5c454c047d5f

There are several problems with these two listings.

First off, the details - Lot 251 is described as a 40mm case, and lot 252 is described as a 36mm case. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not familiar with any 36mm Subs? Lot 251 is described as circa 1974, where as lot 252 is circa 1970's, when the two serials are 5 numbers apart?

Secondly, the estimates - Both pieces were initially listed at an estimate of Usd 3,000-4,000. Lot 251 was corrected at the auction, to an estimate of Usd 10,000-12,000 but lot 252 remained at 3-4k? Why?

Third, the serial numbers - I have found one reference to a 4 mill+ serial Red Sub, is the Mondani Submariner bible. However, anywhere else I look (indlucing DRSD.com) it is mentioned that the Red Sub should not go above 4 mill serial. I believe that Mondani should be a top reference for these things, but still I can't help to question this information, seeing as to how low Christie's put the estimates.

Am I missing something here, or is this just the sloppy work one can expect from one of the world's top auction houses?

Do they really only put real effort into estimates above Usd 50,000 or previously owned by Edward Saran?

If someone maybe can educate me here a bit, would be much appreciated

[onthedial]

@joachimreimers
I looked at the online catalog a few weeks ago and at the time I thought it was a description typo (36mm diameter measurement!). Also, not saying that that such a thing doesn't exist, but I've never seen a legit red 1680 SN exceed the 3.9 mil threshhold.
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Instagram: @onthedial

[Sky21]

Seems like the appraiser and the description writer wanted to move past these two watches quickly to the big money stuff. No red Subs over 4 mil as far as I've read pretty much everywhere. Lot 252 has the pretty rare red Sub serivce dial, no idea where the 36mm comes from with a 1680.

[roh123]

Not related but since you are mentioning auctions and red subs. Here's a crazy result for you all.

https://www.bukowskis.com/en/auction...meter-rod-text

[Gold Coast]

After a bit of research on these watches... From the Christie's Auction page:

Rolex Service Après Vente
The following five lots 250-254 comprise a small and fascinating group of vintage Submariners and GMT-Masters from a private collection.
Presented in immaculate condition and interestingly, at the direct request of the present owner, all five watches have been fitted with Rolex service après vente cases, in addition, lots 250, 252 and 254 have Rolex après vente dials and bracelets.

The reason for this unusual and highly expensive refurbishment by Rolex of all five pieces was a purely practical one. Whilst the present owner loved the vintage Rolex sports watch look, he wished to use his Rolex watches for the purpose for which they were originally intended and therefore they had to be brought back up to modern standards. The ethos behind this is much the same as a ground-up rebuild of a classic car to be compliant with modern regulations and regularly used.
Now of interest in their own right, these watches are ideal for those seeking the vintage look combined with modern-day practicality – in other words a “new old Rolex”.

Service après vente cases from Rolex almost always have a 4 million serial number, no matter what the model. This enables Rolex Service Centres to immediately identify an authentic replacement case. The present group each have in addition to the 4 million serial number, the original serial number and reference engraved inside the caseback as a full record of the work done. For example, lot 250 is engraved: 5512 and “4745677, EX979250”, indicating that the original case had serial number 979’250.

[joachimreimers]

Originally Posted by Gold Coast

After a bit of research on these watches... From the Christie's Auction page:

Rolex Service Après Vente
The following five lots 250-254 comprise a small and fascinating group of vintage Submariners and GMT-Masters from a private collection.
Presented in immaculate condition and interestingly, at the direct request of the present owner, all five watches have been fitted with Rolex service après vente cases, in addition, lots 250, 252 and 254 have Rolex après vente dials and bracelets.

The reason for this unusual and highly expensive refurbishment by Rolex of all five pieces was a purely practical one. Whilst the present owner loved the vintage Rolex sports watch look, he wished to use his Rolex watches for the purpose for which they were originally intended and therefore they had to be brought back up to modern standards. The ethos behind this is much the same as a ground-up rebuild of a classic car to be compliant with modern regulations and regularly used.
Now of interest in their own right, these watches are ideal for those seeking the vintage look combined with modern-day practicality – in other words a “new old Rolex”.

Service après vente cases from Rolex almost always have a 4 million serial number, no matter what the model. This enables Rolex Service Centres to immediately identify an authentic replacement case. The present group each have in addition to the 4 million serial number, the original serial number and reference engraved inside the caseback as a full record of the work done. For example, lot 250 is engraved: 5512 and “4745677, EX979250”, indicating that the original case had serial number 979’250.

Well spotted! Didn't think to look back at the previous lot. This explains the difference in the valuation on the auction day between the lot 251 with an original dial and the lot 252 with a replacement dial.

Judging by the hammer value, seems that the buyers were maybe not aware of this, but can only speculate on that fact.

Thanks for the clarification!

[SBC1986]

Originally Posted by roh123

Not related but since you are mentioning auctions and red subs. Here's a crazy result for you all.

https://www.bukowskis.com/en/auction...meter-rod-text

Wow! What is the current market like for a 1680 in great condition? Like this one:)

[joachimreimers]

Originally Posted by SBC1986

Wow! What is the current market like for a 1680 in great condition? Like this one:)

Hmmm around 12,500-13,500 I would think. Maybe a bit more as the lugs look nice and sharp, however for me personally, the lack of bracelet may take that down again a notch.

The one sold at Bukowskis is an untouched and pretty much flawless Mark I, including bracelet, box, papers and a pretty cool provenance! Even then, a massive price..!

[subx]

Originally Posted by joachimreimers

Hmmm around 12,500-13,500 I would think. Maybe a bit more as the lugs look nice and sharp, however for me personally, the lack of bracelet may take that down again a notch.

The one sold at Bukowskis is an untouched and pretty much flawless Mark I, including bracelet, box, papers and a pretty cool provenance! Even then, a massive price..!

what he said :)