Why don't AP's hold their value??

[lapince]

90% of Patek or Rolex will loose value if you buy at retail, a few models will gain, Daytona, 5711, 5131, but most will loose. So AP is doing not so bad on some models as well, a few LE ROO even took big value, Schulacher for example, or even the 15300, around 3-4 years ago you could get a mint blue dial for 9-10k euros, now good luck on that, even the white and black go for more. If you buy right, many models will increase after 5-7 years of ownership, some not, really no rules, but AP is doing much better than 99% of watch companies...

[jackal981]

I think buying pre owned is the best way to prevent value loss

[The B]

Originally Posted by WWCO

Hoping someone can answer my question, I can't understand why AP's don't hold their value? Looking at buying a diver, the depreciation doesn't bother me however it just raised the question for me. Many thanks, Jack

Some RO and ROO AP's more than hold thier value, ex: T3 and Leo Messi. Some RO lose alot right away, ex: RO RG Openworks.

Some Rolex more than hold value, ex: Daytona's, esp:'Paul Newman'. Some Rolex lose alot right away, ex: DD40 Plat.

With more time and/or research I think you may come up with a diffrent question.

Cool watch choice - enjoy in good health.

[lapince]

^^^^^ yeah a rolex Paul Neman costs a ton, but after how many years...

[sechsgang]

They tend to have one of the stronger second hand markets for SURE! Especially the diver (white or black), 15400 and 15202 along with the RG 41mm chromo's seem to be particularly hot. But yes, they need to be bought well. The problem with the ROO Chronos are people need to really love the color combo and there are more options.

[breitlings]

Without offending anyone I think rolex is time tested. Where ap had lightening in a bottle with the RO/ROO and that is a bit more trendy. I would guess some of the AP market has now gone to RM and hublot. I had a RO when they were on the rise.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by breitlings

Without offending anyone I think rolex is time tested. Where ap had lightening in a bottle with the RO/ROO and that is a bit more trendy. I would guess some of the AP market has now gone to RM and hublot. I had a RO when they were on the rise.

When was that?

[Hairdude1]

Originally Posted by masterserg

APs hold just fine. You have to buy at the right price.

This... just buy right. Do searches and see what BNIB go for and see if your AD can beat.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by GB-man

When was that?

The msrp of a ro was around 4 or 5k or in the early and mid 1990s and then rose a bit and then took off. I can't swear to any of this as i havent really cared to recall these facts thru the years. I know i bought mine for $3500 when i was 17 and not many knew what it was.

Beautiful watches. Do not mean to offend anyone as the flipside is rolex often gets hit for being stagnant, etc.

[lawrenceb]

Very small market, the guy that is spending 20k-30K wants a precious metal watch.
Plus AP's are big, easily damaged (bezel) and dont get the recognition that a Rolex commands.
That said they do hold their value, if bought right. Walking into an AD and paying list or getting 10%-15% off will not end well when it comes time to sell.. no different than gold Rolex or any other brand.

When people go to sell them they panic because they take time to sell and don't get the interest a Rolex gets so they end up dumping them when they have a new piece incoming. List a platinum DD2 and list a Rose AP/Carbon AP for sale and you will have ten times as much interest in the Rolex.

[SS1]

What exactly is considered "buying right" when it comes to AP?

Which model variants are considered preferential on the used market?

Not to hijack the thread, but i am currently considering a 15451ST and there's a number of variants for the dial; the dealer advises that i go with the boutique edition, simply as it is more difficult to source now and is likely to remain that way. The boutique (silver dial) variant costs 20% more than other variants; how do you make these decisions?

Obviously, when buying, the intention is not to sell. However, as with any "investment", its important to lay out the cash wisely.

[Xerxes77]

You will loose money on any brand but on Rolex and Patek you will loose only few hundred euro or USD .
On AP you will loose a lot of money!
And on UN Breguet .......you will loose 50%

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by SS1

What exactly is considered "buying right" when it comes to AP?

Which model variants are considered preferential on the used market?

Not to hijack the thread, but i am currently considering a 15451ST and there's a number of variants for the dial; the dealer advises that i go with the boutique edition, simply as it is more difficult to source now and is likely to remain that way. The boutique (silver dial) variant costs 20% more than other variants; how do you make these decisions?

Obviously, when buying, the intention is not to sell. However, as with any "investment", its important to lay out the cash wisely.

With the 15450 you will lose a lot of money. Any of the regular ROs you lose money except the 15202.

Originally Posted by Xerxes77

You will loose money on any brand but on Rolex and Patek you will loose only few hundred euro or USD .
On AP you will loose a lot of money!
And on UN Breguet .......you will loose 50%

That is not true. On any steel rolex you will lose a few thousand (more even on PM ones). The only patek you won't lose a penny on is the 5711. And that is only if you sell to another person. Sell it to a dealer, and you'll lose a couple thousand as well.

The 5711 and the daytona and steel are the only 2 watches I have seen where new where your % loss is minimal. It comes out to like 5-10%. Where other watches it's like 40-50%.

So buying it right means trying to get 25-30% off. Then you only have another 10-20% to lose fire selling it, rather than 40-50%. And then obviously for AP the limited edition racing ROOs all typically hold their value or go up.

Then their are watches that for a time hold really well or go up, for instance the 15407 is like that now. But these are temporary. Once the hot new thing is dwarfed by another, the prices change. But the ones I mentioned hold strong for years and years.

[texex91]

Originally Posted by jem7v

The only patek you won't lose a penny on is the 5711. .

You really have no clue what you're talking about with AP and now you're a Patek 'expert' as well. LOL.

I've made money on 5990, 5980, 5711, 5167 and if you buy right you can make money on several PP models (including 5524, 5131, etc). Maybe YOU can't make money, but plenty of others can.

[Tomas Eriksson]

Originally Posted by texex91

You really have no clue what you're talking about with AP and now you're a Patek 'expert' as well. LOL.

I've made money on 5990, 5980, 5711, 5167 and if you buy right you can make money on several PP models (including 5524, 5131, etc). Maybe YOU can't make money, but plenty of others can.

Dignity and politeness, please. Of course people can be outliers and make money where others can't, hats off for you. Do remember he is referring to buying new and selling on after the pieces have been used. I pretty much thinks jem7v is spot on with his analysis.

[texex91]

Originally Posted by Tomas Eriksson

Dignity and politeness, please. Of course people can be outliers and make money where others can't, hats off for you. Do remember he is referring to buying new and selling on after the pieces have been used. I pretty much thinks jem7v is spot on with his analysis.

Everything I was referring to were 'used'.

Point is be careful about making broad strokes and my comments are valid and polite.

Thank you (added that just for you).

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by Xerxes77

On AP you will loose a lot of money!
And on UN Breguet .......you will loose 50%

I'm not convinced that you are speaking with any form of personal experience. The only way "On AP you will loose a lot of money!" Is if you run short of cash and have a fire sale.

I've bought, enjoyed wearing & sold enough Rolex & AP to know incorrect statements when I read them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SubKing]

I have owned many AP's over the years an still enjoy them today. I will say I do buy smart and depending on the model I will get a 20% discount majority of the time. When I have turned around to sell, even here on TRF, They have sat stagnant for a long time on the market. That tells me for sure a small market for AP.. In the end I usually take a couple thousand dollar hit on my roo's every time over the years, even with my 20% discounts.. But it's the price you pay to buy AP's brand new and not on the grey market.

I would never look at watches as an investment unless of course we are talking rare vintage sports models.

I also don't believe all rolex models are "hey look at me" type watches..

I for one own a ceramic steel sub because its a great everyday watch, as AP's and pateks alike, tend to be more delicate. They simply cannot take a licking like a rolex can and that's a known fact. That's one major factor that attracts me to rolex.

Second, I have a vintage collection of rolex pieces and I can say when getting involved with vintage, if you know how to buy and what to buy, they are great for investment.

I feel all watches, not just rolex, are forms of status symbols.. AP and patek included..

I agree they are a much smaller market, but still status symbols non the less.

I will walk in a room with my 1950's 6538BC Sub on my wrist and the guy sitting next to me wearing a RG AP has really no idea what I'm wearing and I am completely ok with that.

That's why I love vintage Rolex because they are stealth and not flashy. So I think when labeling rolex as a "status symbol watch" I think it's all relative. Depending on the model, it can be compared the same with most watch brands in terms of "look at me" kind of flash..

many people like rolex because to them, it's the ultimate tool watch.

At the end of the day, you can lose money on any modern watch purchase if not purchased right like others have said. How much you originally pay plays a big factor on how much you will lose.

But to make it simple, if you compare a steel sub at almost half the price VS a AP Diver, you will lose more on the AP, but that's only because the AP is more expensive. So it's hard to compare rolex to a brand that is more expensive across the board.

Compare AP to Patek.. Patek will have a stronger resale value than AP.

I am speaking on my own personal experience with these brands.

just my 2 cents on the matter.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by texex91

You really have no clue what you're talking about with AP and now you're a Patek 'expert' as well. LOL.

I've made money on 5990, 5980, 5711, 5167 and if you buy right you can make money on several PP models (including 5524, 5131, etc). Maybe YOU can't make money, but plenty of others can.

You bought all those new/full price and made money? Really? Stop trolling. Honestly it's sad.

With the exception of 5711, I don't believe it on any of them.

EDIT: So after I saw someone corrected your trolling behavior, I honestly don't see how you thought I was talking about used. I very clearly said new and at full price. Reading comprehension, come on. You are trying way to hard to troll.

[texex91]

Originally Posted by jem7v

You bought all those new/full price and made money? Really? Stop trolling. Honestly it's sad.

With the exception of 5711, I don't believe it on any of them.

EDIT: So after I saw someone corrected your trolling behavior, I honestly don't see how you thought I was talking about used. I very clearly said new and at full price. Reading comprehension, come on. You are trying way to hard to troll.

Excuse me? Trolling? I have incoming threads on all of those watches I stated I owned. You?

I'm just passing along real world experience not just made up thoughts.

I actually have bought plenty AP's and PP's unlike you...or if you have please share. Speaking of trolls.

This will end up like having a discussion with my 10 year old niece, it will never go anywhere. So take care and buy right, you might be surprised.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by SubKing

I have owned many AP's over the years an still enjoy them today. I will say I do buy smart and depending on the model I will get a 20% discount majority of the time. When I have turned around to sell, even here on TRF, They have sat stagnant for a long time on the market. That tells me for sure a small market for AP.. In the end I usually take a couple thousand dollar hit on my roo's every time over the years, even with my 20% discounts.. But it's the price you pay to buy AP's brand new and not on the grey market.

I would never look at watches as an investment unless of course we are talking rare vintage sports models.

I also don't believe all rolex models are "hey look at me" type watches..

I for one own a ceramic steel sub because its a great everyday watch, as AP's and pateks alike, tend to be more delicate. They simply cannot take a licking like a rolex can and that's a known fact. That's one major factor that attracts me to rolex.

Second, I have a vintage collection of rolex pieces and I can say when getting involved with vintage, if you know how to buy and what to buy, they are great for investment.

I feel all watches, not just rolex, are forms of status symbols.. AP and patek included..

I agree they are a much smaller market, but still status symbols non the less.

I will walk in a room with my 1950's 6538BC Sub on my wrist and the guy sitting next to me wearing a RG AP has really no idea what I'm wearing and I am completely ok with that.

That's why I love vintage Rolex because they are stealth and not flashy. So I think when labeling rolex as a "status symbol watch" I think it's all relative. Depending on the model, it can be compared the same with most watch brands in terms of "look at me" kind of flash..

many people like rolex because to them, it's the ultimate tool watch.

At the end of the day, you can lose money on any modern watch purchase if not purchased right like others have said. How much you originally pay plays a big factor on how much you will lose.

But to make it simple, if you compare a steel sub at almost half the price VS a AP Diver, you will lose more on the AP, but that's only because the AP is more expensive. So it's hard to compare rolex to a brand that is more expensive across the board.

Compare AP to Patek.. Patek will have a stronger resale value than AP.

I am speaking on my own personal experience with these brands.

just my 2 cents on the matter.

I think when they say status symbol they were talking about the general person who goes buys like an all gold presidential to show off. Or an all gold yachmaster 2. I do like rolex in the regard that they are not delicate at all. You really can beat the hell out of them and they are perfectly fine. I would be way more carefree with a rolex than I would be an AP/Patek.

Maybe people think still the stigma associated with a new rolex is that is the go to watch for new money buyers to go after. Where the real watch "connoisseur" so to speak, would go after the AP/Patek. Which IMO is more status symbol than rolex.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by texex91

Excuse me? Trolling? I have incoming threads on all of those watches I stated I owned. You?

I'm just passing along real world experience not just made up thoughts.

I actually have bought plenty AP's and PP's unlike you...or if you have please share. Speaking of trolls.

This will end up like having a discussion with my 10 year old niece, it will never go anywhere. So take care and buy right, you might be surprised.

Lol. I'm not saying you don't own the watches you said, nor do I care to be quite frank. But the fact, that you didn't even read what I wrote properly, and accused me of spreading misinformation shows you were just looking to poke holes in my logic. And in a completely biased nonobjective fashion. You saw one statement, ignored the entire flow of logic that followed, and took that statement out of context to attempt to discredit me. Or further/fuel whatever stupid agenda you have against me. This = troll behavior. And that isn't much different than the behavior of a 10 year old either.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by jem7v

Lol. I'm not saying you don't own the watches you said, nor do I care to be quite frank. But the fact, that you didn't even read what I wrote properly, and accused me of spreading misinformation shows you were just looking to poke holes in my logic. And in a completely biased nonobjective fashion. You saw one statement, ignored the entire flow of logic that followed, and took that statement out of context to attempt to discredit me. Or further/fuel whatever stupid agenda you have against me. This = troll behavior. And that isn't much different than the behavior of a 10 year old either.

He does that and has done that to me on a number of occasions in my past threads..

He tends to come off like a (pardon my French) condescending di*k when he speaks in general.

I don't know the man on a personal level, but really wish he would start being more friendly to fellow members and less rude going forward. This is a place to enjoy our hobby and have discussions without feeling attacked on a regular basis.

[HL65]

Ok - enough of the insults. It's ok to disagree but to cross over into name calling and personal attacks not cool. This thread is now closed.