Vacheron Constantin and Patek Philippe

[Peterandwatches]

Having a realtively accessible and popular sports watch helps. Obvioulsy the RO and Aquanaut/Nautilus fit this bill, and allow for a more casual wearer to get into the brand.

I don't think the Overseas has reached that iconic level, and and the best thing going for it, probably is the cool strap change system.

ALS is the only sucessful big brand I can think of without having any sports presence.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Peterandwatches

Having a realtively accessible and popular sports watch helps. Obvioulsy the RO and Aquanaut/Nautilus fit this bill, and allow for a more casual wearer to get into the brand.

I don't think the Overseas has reached that iconic level, and and the best thing going for it, probably is the cool strap change system.

ALS is the only sucessful big brand I can think of without having any sports presence.

How are you classifying them as a 'big brand'? Most people guesstimate their annual production to be around 5000 watches per year........nobody knows Lange unless you're seriously into watches, even moreso than Patek/AP/VC. They don't need a sports presence, they're a niche brand.

[lapince]

Wow have seen the thread before, but the huge novels stopped me from reading everything, now I did,I had a good laugh

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Peterandwatches

Having a realtively accessible and popular sports watch helps. Obvioulsy the RO and Aquanaut/Nautilus fit this bill, and allow for a more casual wearer to get into the brand.

I don't think the Overseas has reached that iconic level, and and the best thing going for it, probably is the cool strap change system.

ALS is the only sucessful big brand I can think of without having any sports presence.

i disagree with accessible. On price there are other brands to consider if price is the driving force behind a choice, and on availability they are very hard to find anyway. Also, accessible is relative. A SS 5726 on a bracelet costs about the same as a 5205G if you compare annual calendar to annual calendar. So just because its "sports" and in SS doesn't make it less expensive or accessible.

I do agree on the casual part though. I don't wear dressy watches at all. The sports line is what got me into PP. So as far as a more everyday type of wear piece, a strong sports presence does help generate interest overall.

I don't think most are buying into watches at this level to only buy the most accessible (affordable) one. At these prices I suspect most are choosing the watch they like best as its a lot of money to spend to just pick the most basic one if its not also your favorite.

IMO accessable or entry level or starter watch do not apply to anything from AP, PP, VC or ALS to name a few.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by KarlS

I dont think ALS is third tier as every ALS owner points out Dufour wears a Datograph!!

I think I read it was in his eyes the greatest movement ever made. I will own either the platinum up/down or PC Chrono but will have to make that leap over the 3970 which will be hard to do when thinking about the monetary value of resale which will not actually ever be a factor for me. But, when I pass on that monetary value "could" be a huge deal between the ALS Perp Cal Chrono and PP Perp Cal Chrono.

I don't care for too many ALS models but the ones that I do, I truly put them on another level than even PP and other highly praised small independents.

[KarlS]

U will die on resale on the PC Dato...and doubt you will read the dials!! ALS is really only Dato ....

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by KarlS

U will die on resale on the PC Dato...and doubt you will read the dials!! ALS is really only Dato ....

Really? The dials are that much harder to read than the PP's? I do like the idea of the basic Chrono Dato better when it comes to keeping everything set for sure but just as an ultimate grail the Perp Cal Chrono has always been my admiration in terms of complications with a chiming watch being a close second. A truly nice chiming watch will most likely always be out of my price range though. It couldn't be an extremely delicate piece so that's what will keep them out of my league. FPJ's Grande et Petite Sonnerie construction is a perfect example of what I'm referring to but at 1/4 the price lmao. I know I'm only dreaming of such a creation most likely but maybe there will be an example by the time my days are done.

[regnant]

I like Vacheron Constantin a tad more over Patek Philippe but in terms of bringing novelties on the table Patek Philippe must edge Vacheron Constantin given the fact that Patek Philippe was first to ever create a watch with an annual calendar. That's just an example
Revolution mag recently covered a few cool facts why Patek Philippe is being so coveted by many.
I have got a Vacheron Constantin Quai De I'Ile and I love the way they design the watch and case in general. It's very different and looking nicer whereas the most complicated watches of the brand has more sedate design aspects in terms of case, lugs, flanks and other things
Patek Philippe is a snobbish brand considering using their own seal not bothering to apply for Geneva Seal
This thread is dedicated mainly to brands but I like A Lange Sohne more than these

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Alford78

Really? The dials are that much harder to read than the PP's? I do like the idea of the basic Chrono Dato better when it comes to keeping everything set for sure but just as an ultimate grail the Perp Cal Chrono has always been my admiration in terms of complications with a chiming watch being a close second. A truly nice chiming watch will most likely always be out of my price range though. It couldn't be an extremely delicate piece so that's what will keep them out of my league. FPJ's Grande et Petite Sonnerie construction is a perfect example of what I'm referring to but at 1/4 the price lmao. I know I'm only dreaming of such a creation most likely but maybe there will be an example by the time my days are done.

You better put it on before you buy and see if you can read the subdials. And yes a repeater is also my exit watch

[lapince]

Originally Posted by KarlS

U will die on resale on the PC Dato...and doubt you will read the dials!! ALS is really only Dato ....

No he won't die on resale, at the Wempe AD in Paris, I asked to see, asked for a discount "oh no it's very rare and in demand, it won't loose value so we can't discount that model we can't do lower than retail, 130.300 euros" I smiled, and at home looked at Chrono 24 once home, the cheapest new one was 89k, the cheapest mint was 69k, so 41k or 61k depending new or not, now that's a watch which keeps it's value and a great investment

[lapince]

Originally Posted by KarlS

You better put it on before you buy and see if you can read the subdials. And yes a repeater is also my exit watch

Yes the subdials are microscopic... well my dream is a PP minute repeater, but that won't happen, way out of my league...

[AK797]

On this forum the emphasis is on sports watches and probably with the proliferation of social media esp amongst the young this has extended to WIS and other forums in general. At the sports level it is straight fight between the VCO and Nautilus and both are rather strange unorthodox designs but consensus is clear the Naut is the far more desired, but both of these and the RO are all hugely eclipsed by the Sub/GMT/Daytona with their simple classical shape, so maybe they are all missing a trick... 5522a may be tapping into that.

The conglomerisation of VC did hit how it was viewed as a Maison or Horology House, and since then they have really been passed by Lange with their hallmark and innovative models, Lange 1, Datograph, Zeitwerk as VC has not added much that is new or really enticing. Where Patek really live are with their grand comps, the PCCs, DS etc and no other firm can match them on that front, and that ofc filters down to glaze all the simpler models in their golden sheen and thus makes the whole brand so desirable.

[Hollister]

Originally Posted by regnant

Patek Philippe is a snobbish brand considering using their own seal not bothering to apply for Geneva Seal

I think PP dropped the GS because some of their manufacture became located outside of the Geneva Canton. So, ultimately they were forced to drop it on geographical grounds.

But the reality is that the GS is just another form of marketing BS. FP Journe doesn't bother with it, even though all his watches would qualify. The PP seal is just a continuation of the previous GS BS.

5522 is a particularly lame product. I hope PP can recover from it.

Back on topic, the VC Patrimony knocks the Calatrava into a cocked hat.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by Hollister

I think PP dropped the GS because some of their manufacture became located outside of the Geneva Canton. So, ultimately they were forced to drop it on geographical grounds.

But the reality is that the GS is just another form of marketing BS. FP Journe doesn't bother with it, even though all his watches would qualify. The PP seal is just a continuation of the previous GS BS.

5522 is a particularly lame product. I hope PP can recover from it.

Back on topic, the VC Patrimony knocks the Calatrava into a cocked hat.

pretty much agree, not a Calatrava fan, except the 55254, but where is that a Cala? Can't say why, I would have put it in the comp section

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by lapince

pretty much agree, not a Calatrava fan, except the 55254, but where is that a Cala? Can't say why, I would have put it in the comp section

Because it has 2 complications! Date and Dual Time

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Because it has 2 complications! Date and Dual Time

i never understood that either. The 5524 is called a calatrava but is listed as a complication and is not in the calatrava section of the catalogue or website.

the 5164 has the same complications but is still listed with the rest of the aquanauts and is not listed as a complication.