Movement

[B. Doggy]

Of the many reasons I purchased a Rolex, what makes up the movement was a primary factor. All in-house and of the utmost quality. However, as I consider another brand (Panerai) to add to my collection, I cannot forget the importance of a good movement.

I look back at the Rolex brand and recall the Daytona as once having an outsourced movement; Zenith. Panerai does as well for a good number of their models. But are these quality and are they worth the price? I can certainly see that that the Daytona's of the world that have the outsourced movement are quite sought after and still very good.

Do you think the ETA and other movements are as good as Zenith, etc?

[cody p]

they (the various eta calibers) are all sufficient unto the day. even a seiko 7s26 or miyota will give years of dependable service. it really is just a hoity-toity-prestige thing. but hey, i bought into it.

[Quicksilver]

ETA movements are excellent. But the advantage in Rolex having an in house movement is that they really understand what makes that movement tick Rolex have been making the same movements for years and have perfected their manafacture down to a fine art. That should pay dividends in the reliability of the movement - or so we are told

[Tools]

There are a lot of watches using ETA movements.. IWC, Oris, Omega..and on, and on..

They do, however, make their movements in several different "grades"; so you really can't say that such and such uses an ETA, Rolex used to use a Valjoux which is now owned by ETA, and therefore an ETA is as good as a Rolex movement..

But, as far as dependability, ruggedness, and proven quality/reliability..........there isn't any other watchmaker that can truthfully say that they have a better product than Rolex..

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

ETA movements are excellent. But the advantage in Rolex having an in house movement is that they really understand what makes that movement tick Rolex have been making the same movements for years and have perfected their manafacture down to a fine art. That should pay dividends in the reliability of the movement - or so we are told

ETA although not in its present form have been making movements as long or longer than Rolex.And ETA is 100% all in-house too,and lets not forget every Rolex had a small part of ETA inside with the Nivarox hairspring for over 40 years.

Originally Posted by B. Doggy

Of the many reasons I purchased a Rolex, what makes up the movement was a primary factor. All in-house and of the utmost quality. However, as I consider another brand (Panerai) to add to my collection, I cannot forget the importance of a good movement.

I look back at the Rolex brand and recall the Daytona as once having an outsourced movement; Zenith. Panerai does as well for a good number of their models. But are these quality and are they worth the price? I can certainly see that that the Daytona's of the world that have the outsourced movement are quite sought after and still very good.

Do you think the ETA and other movements are as good as Zenith, etc?

Well ETA movements are all in-house too,and have powered may high end brands though the years.And in many ways the chronometer grade movements are as as accurate and as long lasting as many other mass produced high end brand of watches.A lot of people think the ETA is a inferior movement which it is not.The Ulysse Nardin marine chronometers have always been highly regarded, but it is a little known fact that for years, they were fitted with a hi-beat version of (36000 BPH) version of the ETA 2824-2, UN calibre NB11QU.


Sometime I hear comments like "such an expensive watch and only an ETA movement inside ". Words like these give the impression that an ETA movement is of lower quality.It should be the other way around, people should say "Well, it has a excellent ETA movement inside this watch, but the price of this watch is astonishingly high".And today ETA make and sell around five to six million plus movements a year.Lets not forget that ETA is the largest manufacture in Switzerland, because they make everything, in-house only too.I have a special regard for the Unitas 6497/8 this movement has not basically changed now for over 50 years,and is capable of COSC standards,and very forgiving in its servicing or lack of.A truly great workhouse movement that has powered many high end watches Panerai for one.

This is my short list of outstanding movements that should all easily achieve a daily consistency of three to five seconds or better on the wrist.ETA 2892-A2, ETA 2824/2, ETA 7750,Unitas 6497/8,Omega 2500, JLC 889/2 , JLC 960, all of the current Rolex calibres, Longines 990 (Lemania 8815), PP 215, PP 240, Zenith 400,Zenith 670, GP 3100 plus there are many more.

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by padi56

ETA although not in its present form have been making movements as long or longer than Rolex.And ETA is 100% all in-house too,and lets not forget every Rolex had a small part of ETA inside with the Nivarox hairspring for over 40 years.




Well ETA movements are all in-house too,and have powered may high end brands though the years.And in many ways the chronometer grade movements are as as accurate and as long lasting as many other mass produced high end brand of watches.A lot of people think the ETA is a inferior movement which it is not.The Ulysse Nardin marine chronometers have always been highly regarded, but it is a little known fact that for years, they were fitted with a hi-beat version of (36000 BPH) version of the ETA 2824-2, UN calibre NB11QU.


Sometime I hear comments like "such an expensive watch and only an ETA movement inside ". Words like these give the impression that an ETA movement is of lower quality.It should be the other way around, people should say "Well, it has a excellent ETA movement inside this watch, but the price of this watch is astonishingly high".And today ETA make and sell around five to six million plus movements a year.Lets not forget that ETA is the largest manufacture in Switzerland, because they make everything, in-house only too.I have a special regard for the Unitas 6497/8 this movement has not basically changed now for over 50 years,and is capable of COSC standards,and very forgiving in its servicing or lack of.A truly great workhouse movement that has powered many high end watches Panerai for one.

This is my short list of outstanding movements that should all easily achieve a daily consistency of three to five seconds or better on the wrist.ETA 2892-A2, ETA 2824/2, ETA 7750,Unitas 6497/8,Omega 2500, JLC 889/2 , JLC 960, all of the current Rolex calibres, Longines 990 (Lemania 8815), PP 215, PP 240, Zenith 400,Zenith 670, GP 3100 plus there are many more.

Pretty much as i'd say, people seem to turn their nose up at ETA movements, but as you state ETA sell millions of movements and they take orders to produce ETA movements to a basic standard and several orders from companies like Panerai for additional features/quality. IWC don't buy their movements complete, they get them in individual pieces, they then remove the parts they then build up a movement using the ETA movement and their own parts.

But as stated above, you could go out and buy a Rolex, IWC, Panerai, Breitling and a couple of others, test them for a year and there is just as much chance that the IWC or Panerai will be keeping better time than the Rolex.

I do feel that a company should produce its own movements as well, it shows the company has a full understanding and most of the above have their own movements, Panerai, IWC, etc all put their own movements into their higher priced range, but since they're such small companies compared to Rolex they really don't have the ability to produce the amount of movements required without buying them in.

[argee1977]

Forgot to add, i do think a couple of companies are pricing basic watches a little bit too high, but again if people buy them then they're priced right, i haven't seen many Panerai hanging round the local ADs, they sell well and are good watches.

[Perdu]

My ETA chronomter movement keeps time to one second a day. Nuff said.

[Z-Sub]

I'm sure ETA has different grades of movments and I would think Panerai would choose the better ones. I don't know much about Panerai but their models using their own movements are more expensive than many Rolex SS models.

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by Z-Sub

I'm sure ETA has different grades of movments and I would think Panerai would choose the better ones. I don't know much about Panerai but their models using their own movements are more expensive than many Rolex SS models.

They're more expensive that diamond encrusted Rolexes

[padi56]

Originally Posted by argee1977

Pretty much as i'd say, people seem to turn their nose up at ETA movements, but as you state ETA sell millions of movements and they take orders to produce ETA movements to a basic standard and several orders from companies like Panerai for additional features/quality. IWC don't buy their movements complete, they get them in individual pieces, they then remove the parts they then build up a movement using the ETA movement and their own parts.

But as stated above, you could go out and buy a Rolex, IWC, Panerai, Breitling and a couple of others, test them for a year and there is just as much chance that the IWC or Panerai will be keeping better time than the Rolex.

I do feel that a company should produce its own movements as well, it shows the company has a full understanding and most of the above have their own movements, Panerai, IWC, etc all put their own movements into their higher priced range, but since they're such small companies compared to Rolex they really don't have the ability to produce the amount of movements required without buying them in.

Good post and reply the most important thing with mechanical watches is how they are regulated.Now to regulate every single movement takes time and today, time costs money.So most movements from say ETA are un-regulated but with careful regulation even the bottom grade movement could perform close, or too the COSC standard.

Originally Posted by Perdu

My ETA chronomter movement keeps time to one second a day. Nuff said.

Yes agree but saying that myself have a Alpha mechanical wind Chronograph that cost just $60.And with the help of my watchmaker friend and his timing machine.That watch now has been running well inside the COSC spec for around 2 years.And fact it is one of my most accurate watches including Rolex plus a few others.So with careful regulation even the most humble movement can perform well but for how long,well only time knows.

[DanP]

Great thread!. Great responses people:) My Tudor rotor is almost 1 year old now, and runs just as good as the day I got it .+1 or -1 a day given what im doing . Its always on the dot, and I love it!

[hsung]

I don't mean to sound like a hermit ... but, does ETA makes movements only or do they make watches too?

[Andad]

Excellent info guys - thank you.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by hsung

I don't mean to sound like a hermit ... but, does ETA makes movements only or do they make watches too?

ETA Valjoux is now part of the Swatch group which now own such brands as Breguet, Blancpain, Glashütte Original, Jaquet Droz, Léon Hatot,Omega,Longines,Rado,Tiffany,Tissot,Certina, Balmain, Mido, Hamilton and Union Glashütte .On the movement side, Frederic Piguet, DYB, ETA, , Valdar,Valjoux, Nivarox-FAR,and Comadur.So ETA movement companies supply ebauche and full movements and components to third-party high end, middle and lesser brand watchmakers in Switzerland and around the world.Rolex watches prior to the introduction of the in-house parachrome spring used ETA Nivarox-FAR hairsprings in all there watches for 40 plus years. And now ETA Swatch group are the world’s largest single watch producer
.

[hsung]

Thanks Padi,

We can always count on you for a history lesson with facts.

[toph]

Thanks Padi!! my New Steinhart has an ETA 6497!! The fact that you regard it so highly means something

[padi56]

Originally Posted by toph

Thanks Padi!! my New Steinhart has an ETA 6497!! The fact that you regard it so highly means something

The secret to most movements is a large size movement and balance wheel the Unites ones huge just like the Rolex engine.Even the bottom grade Unites is perfectly capable of running to COSC standards.Its how fine you can regulate the standard movement thats the secret of accuracy.The finer the regulation adjustment the more accurate the movement. Panerai and a few others uses the Swan neck type of adjuster.

[marshallr47]

Good read guys. Thanks for all the info.

[Trurolexer]

Originally Posted by toph

Thanks Padi!! my New Steinhart has an ETA 6497!! The fact that you regard it so highly means something

Thanks Padi!!! Very nice!!!
Hey Toph, you have a new Steinhart?

[simoesm]

Thanks everybody. I have learned a lot with this posts. Cheers.

[JJ Irani]

Great thread, guys......and some excellent info from our very own Padi - a warehouse of knowledge on the subject!

[Z-Sub]

Padi thanks for the information!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by hsung

Thanks Padi,

We can always count on you for a history lesson with facts.

Originally Posted by toph

Thanks Padi!! my New Steinhart has an ETA 6497!! The fact that you regard it so highly means something

Originally Posted by Trurolexer

Thanks Padi!!! Very nice!!!
Hey Toph, you have a new Steinhart?

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Great thread, guys......and some excellent info from our very own Padi - a warehouse of knowledge on the subject!

Originally Posted by Z-Sub

Padi thanks for the information!

Thanks gentlemen much appreciated.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by padi56

Thanks gentlemen much appreciated.

Glad you still think I'm a gentleman, Padi!!

[argee1977]

Padi56 knows his movements, i like the way he gives the information to dispell the unfounded thinking that ETA movements are somehow cheap and nasty, as you say some companies will just buy in an ETA movement and stick it into a generic case and sell it, others will take a lot more time and care to make sure that the movement is as good as they can finish it off with their own parts and regulating it.

When it comes down to it, the cost to Rolex for making a movement is probably similar to that of say an IWC or Panerai ETA, it's just that Rolex have the manpower, money and machinery to do all this for such a vast production line, the others just can't compete, but the good thing is that at least it's starting some competition and giving the buyers better products.