setting minute hand precisely...

[Nicky G]

Folks, mega-apologies in advance if this has been covered before, many times. I did read something about it in a sticky I believe, but I could use some more clarification...

New Explorer (F-series 114270) I've been wearing for less than a week seems to be keeping about +3 seconds a day. I love this thing!

However, the minute hand has more "play" in it, when setting, than my other Swiss, a Baume & Mercier w/ Soprod-tweaked ETA 2892-A2. That thing is pretty easy to set "precisely" so the minute hand lines up with the minute markers quite exactly. However, yeah, it keeps about +7 seconds a day.

So anyway, I am trying to get the "feel" for setting the minute hand on my Explorer in a fashion that leads to the minute hand staying pretty well put on the minute markers as the sweep second crosses zero, even over many hours/days. I figure this should be possible.

What I do when setting is go to time.gov, wait for the "00" to slick off and right as it does, I engage the watch by pushing in the crown.

I find that the minute hand does have a wee little bit of play in it, so despite it being lined up with the minute marker, it doesn't always stay aligned over the next several hours, and eventually ends up either a little ahead or behind of the minute marker it should be on.

To remedy this I wiggle the minute hand back and forth a little before setting, then with the hand moving forward, let it land a WEE little bit ahead of the minute marker I am aiming for. This does "ok" but after a few hours I still end up "off" by a little bit, and usually behind about a third or quarter of a minute marker.

Any tips, gang?

OK, so I think I am a little OCD, which manifests as WIS-itis. But I figured this would be a compassionate crowd...

Thanks in advance!

[pirchryn]

How old is the watch? This happens with automatics...I believe this is the case, because I never really paid attention to it.

[Nicky G]

It's serial places it between late 2003 and early 2005, but the really funny thing is, it seems to be accurate now, when a little earlier today it was not.

What seems to happen is that I set it according to the method outlined in the sticky, over the next hour or few seems to be off, but then later on int he day seems to have aligned much more correctly. Weird!

Well, hopefully it will "stick" for now. I figure that at +3 seconds average daily, and the fact that I don't mind if it's up to several minutes fast, I'll only have to go through this process once every several months.

However if anyone else has tips I am all ears...

[AndersB]

I have an Explorer II (bought very recently) and it seems to show the same kind of "behaviour". Lags about 2 secs a day. Minute hand exactly pointing at the marker sometimes and somtimes not. Not sure whether it's becuase the hand is unsteady, or if the markers are not placed on exact intervals (i.e. the hand will be aligned during the first 20 minutes and then slighly less aligned during the next 20 mins). I used to believe the latter but now that you mention the same thing, maybe the hand is a bit unsteady.

[Dan Pierce]

Gear slack. To sync the second and minute hands:
- hack the second hand at 12.
- set time.
- move minute hand past present time [clockwise], then back to exact time [counter clockwise]. This removes the slack.
- Then when it's time push the crown in to start the second hand.
This will align the second, minute and hour hands.
Hope this helps,
dP

[BGRINDEL]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Gear slack. To sync the second and minute hands:
- hack the second hand at 12.
- set time.
- move minute hand past present time [clockwise], then back to exact time [counter clockwise]. This removes the slack.
- Then when it's time push the crown in to start the second hand.
This will align the second, minute and hour hands.
Hope this helps,
dP

X2.....this is exactly what I do to set....

[JeffW]

Another way to do it that I've been using... I stop the second hand at xx:xx:50 (10 seconds before the completion of the minute). Then set the minute hand to align with the minute mark. Then start the watch when the atomic clock shows xx:xx:50. This seems to work pretty well to take out the gear slack.

[Overkill]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Gear slack. To sync the second and minute hands:
- hack the second hand at 12.
- set time.
- move minute hand past present time [clockwise], then back to exact time [counter clockwise]. This removes the slack.
- Then when it's time push the crown in to start the second hand.
This will align the second, minute and hour hands.
Hope this helps,
dP

Interesting. I do the opposite and it seems to work.

I move the minute hand back (counter clockwise) before present time, then I move it forward (clockwise) again to the exact time.

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by Overkill

Interesting. I do the opposite and it seems to work.

I move the minute hand back (counter clockwise) before present time, then I move it forward (clockwise) again to the exact time.

That is interesting. Well, what ever works.
dP

[ocwatching]

and I thought I was being anal retentative or my watches were in need of servicing...
so..there is a GEAR SLACK!!

THANKS for this thread...

[AndersB]

But is it gear slack if the minute hand is aligned for some time and then not (for some time) and then aligned again, without the watch being set in between?

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by AndersB

But is it gear slack if the minute hand is aligned for some time and then not (for some time) and then aligned again, without the watch being set in between?

Yes. Older movements seem to be more susceptible. I have a 1970 Tudor DD that exhibits this. If I set the minute hand to be spot on at 9:00 it will not be at 3:00. Doesn't bother me cause it's all part of the personality of your watch.
Newer movements can exhibit this but to a much lesser degree.
dP

[Pimpsy]

This issue with my GMTIIc initially drove my crazy. What I have found to work is moving the minute hand past the mark and letting it spring back to the marker. Once I get it to spring back to the correct mark it seems to keep its place very well.

I wear this watch daily so I haven't had to readjust the minute hand in quite some time. Thankfully my watch runs just a tiny bit fast, so to set the time I just hack it occasionally for a few seconds.

[dkpw]

My 16610 Sub also has a small amount on gear slippage. All I do is hack the second hand, take the minute hand past the minute marker and then carefully back it up to align with the minute marker. It works a treat.

David

[buz-lh]

I'm glad my eyes aren't that good. I would never notice unless it jumped at least half a minute.

[Nicky G]

I get variability throughout the day, as another poster mentioned. Sometimes dead-on, sometimes it's off by a bit, as much as a quarter of a minute marker ahead (or behind, depending on how I initially set it). Right now for instance at 37 minutes and change past 1pm, the minute hand is about 15 seconds behind where it should be. But I can guarantee it will be perfectly aligned at other times of the day. Kind of weird! I am going to try the technique Dan Pierce suggested. Not sure if this will help with the variability, however. In any case, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the watch, just one of the little "personality traits" I've been noticing in my first Rolex. :-)

[skipcress]

This is my understanding, but I have a more firm technical foundation in clocks, so please let me know if I'm off base!:

When you set the time of a watch or clock, you are setting the "motion works," which is a set of solidly linked gears driving the minute and hour hands, such that it is impossible to drive the minute hand without also driving the hour hand, at a rate of 12:1. This is why those two hands are always in sync.

The motion works is clutched to the "going train," that is to say clutched to the gears which solidly connect the watch mainspring to the escapement / balance (part that ticks / heart of watch). When you set the watch, you are slipping that clutch.

As others have noted, there is slack designed into watch and clock gears. I want to call attention to two different kinds of slack as it relates to setting the watch: slack in the gear train overall, and slack in the specific gears used to set the time.

Since there is slack in the gear train overall, you have to overcome that slack when you rotate the hands counter clockwise. While you do so, the watch mainspring is actively fighting against you to take up that slack again, which is why sometimes the hands will quickly rotate clockwise a small degree after you rotate them counter clockwise and release the crown.

Since there is a small amount of slack in the gears used to set the watch, there is a small amount of back and forth motion you can make that wont move the hands either direction (also of note is that once you push past that slack, you encounter the friction of the "clutch", which is why there is resistance felt even when rotating clockwise).

Once the crown and stem have been depressed, whatever the relationship between the minute hand and dial is should remain effectively constant from there forward. My preferred technique of setting my Air-King (which is likewise finicky) is to rotate the minute hand clockwise ever so slightly past the dial indicator, then back it up into alignment. My objective is to have the hand in the middle of that "dead zone," where moving the crown either direction by a fractional amount doesn't move the hands at all (due to the slack).

I don't know this to be true, but I would bet the greatest cause of perceived variance is actually parallax, ie the angle a person views their watch from. You might find that while setting the watch you're looking at it from a different perspective than you ordinarily do, so it always looks right off wrist, and always looks wrong on wrist. You could also find that the watch always seems to look wrong at certain points along the dial, such that it seems misaligned at the 40 minute mark, but were you to wear the watch upside down it would look misaligned at the 10 minute mark instead (the same point relative to your eye).

[schoolboy]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Gear slack.

Interesting.

Always learn something new on here.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us Dan!

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Gear slack. To sync the second and minute hands:
- hack the second hand at 12.
- set time.
- move minute hand past present time [clockwise], then back to exact time [counter clockwise]. This removes the slack.
- Then when it's time push the crown in to start the second hand.
This will align the second, minute and hour hands.
Hope this helps,
dP

What this guy said

EDIT: Holy God, this is 9 years old, ha

[faz]

Learn something new every day! Thank you.

Originally Posted by dmash

What this guy said

EDIT: Holy God, this is 9 years old, ha

Ok, learn something old every day!!!



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[DanMdR]

I give up! I’ve tried everything. Sometimes it’s dead on, sometimes it’s a little off. This is where it’s at now. Haven’t set it in over a month.