I Admire People Who Have Knowledge and Debating Skills

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Everyone's opinion IS equally valid. Which opinions are actionable is based entirely on the specifics of a situation. I listen to a lot of BS. Every now and then there is a nugget of wisdom nestled amongst the turds.

On that we disagree. When I use the word valid I mean right or factual or truthful.

Everyone can have an opinion. That’s how we learn and grow. But if it’s just magical thinking it’s not valid (using my previous criteria). It is merely a theory.

YMMV

[037]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Scientists argue largely in the theoretical. Engineers live in the real world. While science may predict a thing with an error acceptable in that field, engineering requires a level of precision that foolproofs a design. People want to make high impact decisions on the notional science, but it's really the engineering that has to work out. The difference between you and I on this topic is probably a lot less about the science than it is about the engineering.

This is where I land. Precision is paramount in engineering. Where I get lost in this particular scientific debate is the lack of a control. Scientific experiments almost always require a control to be validated. In this case we don't have a real-time, parallel Earth without human/industrial influence to compare impact results and actually prove this stuff beyond hypothetical speculation. Without a control it's all just prediction, prophesy, speculation or at best, a guess. Engineers don't have the liberty to live in a world of guesswork. Meteorology and aerospace engineering couldn't be any further apart in this sense.

Originally Posted by Blansky

Everyone can have an opinion. That’s how we learn and grow. But if it’s just magical thinking it’s not valid (using my previous criteria). It is merely a theory.

Technically that would be a hypothesis, not a theory. Theories are proven. Hypotheses aren't. The two terms have become conflated over time and lost their original meanings at the expense of colloquialism. "In theory..." always makes me cringe when followed by a hypothetical. But, I digest.


Kidding... digress.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by BBL

To those who contributed to the thread that I (innocently) started and is now closed, thank you for some interesting viewpoints, experiences, and predictions. I enjoyed them all.
Just sorry it ended the way it did.

So, thank you, to those who made excellent contributions to the thread.

I did not realize threads on this subject resulted in eventually being closed. I'm fairly new to the forum really. I apologize for my naivety. But, it is not so much the subject matter I think, it is the ratcheting unrelated to the topic.

Be well, everyone!
I am a TRF loyalist!

DM (the new Daniel)

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=631194

(Mods, you may close this thread also, if you so wish. Thank you.)

I've been taking more of a reading role on the forum but as a philosophy major, I completely agree with the sentiment. Especially those who are not just sophist but actually try to debate as a way of discerning truth in the ilk of Socrates and Plato. Philosophy is often defined in a hard way as the science of reason, math is built on philosophy, physics upon math, chemistry upon physics, biology upon chemistry. Modern philosophy is a bit softer but I think it will return as the meta-philosophical impacts of string theory are both important and not yet fully understood.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by Blansky

On that we disagree. When I use the word valid I mean right or factual or truthful.

Everyone can have an opinion. That’s how we learn and grow. But if it’s just magical thinking it’s not valid (using my previous criteria). It is merely a theory.

YMMV

What is truth? What is your standard of epistemological ontology? Is perhaps the most aggressive, epistemological realism like Socrates, and if so, even Socrates and Plato excluded what we consider facts from their epistemological realism. Their is no epistemological "form" of the Super Bowl 50 winner, the temperature in 2000, and etc. Is truth dependent on the viewer or the society, or imagine a parallel universe and/or alien race, would they also consider truth the same (for example it's very likely that their view of numbers is different than ours and that we would find initial agreement with irrational numbers like Pi or weights/wavelengths of Atoms vs what we consider "rational" numbers).

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by breitlings

What is truth? What is your standard of epistemological ontology? Is perhaps the most aggressive, epistemological realism like Socrates, and if so, even Socrates and Plato excluded what we consider facts from their epistemological realism. Their is no epistemological "form" of the Super Bowl 50 winner, the temperature in 2000, and etc. Is truth dependent on the viewer or the society, or imagine a parallel universe and/or alien race, would they also consider truth the same (for example it's very likely that their view of numbers is different than ours and that we would find initial agreement with irrational numbers like Pi or weights/wavelengths of Atoms vs what we consider "rational" numbers).

Being the thick sod that I am, lost me all after; "What is truth?"

[austinp]

Originally Posted by daveathall

Being the thick sod that I am, lost me all after; "What is truth?"

Agree. Way over my pay grade.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by breitlings

I've been taking more of a reading role on the forum but as a philosophy major, I completely agree with the sentiment. Especially those who are not just sophist but actually try to debate as a way of discerning truth in the ilk of Socrates and Plato. Philosophy is often defined in a hard way as the science of reason, math is built on philosophy, physics upon math, chemistry upon physics, biology upon chemistry. Modern philosophy is a bit softer but I think it will return as the meta-philosophical impacts of string theory are both important and not yet fully understood.

Originally Posted by breitlings

What is truth? What is your standard of epistemological ontology? Is perhaps the most aggressive, epistemological realism like Socrates, and if so, even Socrates and Plato excluded what we consider facts from their epistemological realism. Their is no epistemological "form" of the Super Bowl 50 winner, the temperature in 2000, and etc. Is truth dependent on the viewer or the society, or imagine a parallel universe and/or alien race, would they also consider truth the same (for example it's very likely that their view of numbers is different than ours and that we would find initial agreement with irrational numbers like Pi or weights/wavelengths of Atoms vs what we consider "rational" numbers).

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Syed117

There was a post in the other thread that said something ridiculous about how humans are just animals and we are changing our environment and that might not be bad or unnatural.

I almost had an aneurysm after I read that. That's what the thought process is. That person used the word natural to describe what humanity's effect on the planet is. Yeah, maybe if we went back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle, maybe we could compare ourselves to other species and their effects, but that thought process left me stunned. You can't debate against that.

I am "that person" and it was a comment for purposes of discussion. I believe in global warming and also believe it is undesirable for many reasons.

My point is that even in the context of science, we still deal with semantics and also make value judgments about what is or isn't desirable. "Unnatural" is anything not natural, so the meaning hinges on what we choose to define as "natural" ... a rational person who considers global warming natural would implicitly be accepting a very broad definition of "natural"

You can call it ridiculous, aneurysm-inducing, etc. but I think you read things into my comment that were not actually in the text.

[bdex75]

Maybe we can have a flat earth debate???



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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by bdex75

Maybe we can have a flat earth debate???



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They're idiots! Everyone knows it's a dodecahedron. That's why there's 12 months in the year.

[bdex75]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

They're idiots! Everyone knows it's a dodecahedron. That's why there's 12 months in the year.

Exactly!!!! No other logical explanation for this crazy trip around the sun!! Wait....we do orbit the sun, right?????


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[FTX I]

I have no idea what happened. Missed this thread unfortunately.

[77T]

Originally Posted by FTX I

I have no idea what happened. Missed this thread unfortunately.

Well it went sort of like this one is going (no fault of the OP) - so stay tuned...

IBTL


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[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by bdex75

Maybe we can have a flat earth debate???



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The earth is flat. If it wasn’t then the people on the other side would fall into space. Duh!

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by 77T

Well it went sort of like this one is going (no fault of the OP) - so stay tuned...

IBTL


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[superdog]

[QUOTE=77T;8982818 (no fault of the OP)

IBTL


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Well. It was closed the first time for a reason.


Lmao. Once I saw the link in this one I knew it was going in that direction.

[BBL]

Originally Posted by 77T

Well it went sort of like this one is going (no fault of the OP) - so stay tuned...

IBTL
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Please.............. no ibtl. Mods didn't close it down on my first post on this thread, so ... please don't get it shut down because of a manners slip.
I am learning!
Thanks guys.

DM

[77T]

Originally Posted by BBL

Please.............. no ibtl. Mods didn't close it down on my first post, so ... please don't get it shut down because of a manners slip.
I am learning!
Thanks guys.

DM

No judgement meant. There are many “3rd rail” topics with widely divergent opinions to choose from...




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[BBL]

Originally Posted by 77T

No judgement meant. There are many “3rd rail” topics with widely divergent opinions to choose from...

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I know, Paul. No worries.
I only quoted you because it was the last posting that it could be doomed.

I'm trying to be optimistic.

DM

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by BBL

I know, Paul. No worries.
I only quoted you because it was the last posting that it could be doomed.

I'm trying to be optimistic.

DM

Speaking of doomed. I read an article by a consortium of experts on the interweb that if you stretch out blue parachrome springs you have to be careful not to reverse the coil or the interaction with the magnetosphere will cause supertsunamis.

If one guy said it, we'd be laughing at a crackpot. But since a lot of people are saying it, it must be true.

[droptopman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Speaking of doomed. I read an article by a consortium of experts on the interweb that if you stretch out blue parachrome springs you have to be careful not to reverse the coil or the interaction with the magnetosphere will cause supertsunamis.

If one guy said it, we'd be laughing at a crackpot. But since a lot of people are saying it, it must be true.

LOL, so who is going to take apart their watch so we can test this hypothesis?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by droptopman

LOL, so who is going to take apart their watch so we can test this hypothesis?

It needs to be a government study so we know that we get proper experts. And I can't imagine it could be done for less than $10 million.

[BBL]

Originally Posted by droptopman

LOL, so who is going to take apart their watch so we can test this hypothesis?

Lordy, Lordy. Hahaa.. I might have a spare !

DM.

[droptopman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

It needs to be a government study so we know that we get proper experts. And I can't imagine it could be done for less than $10 million.

Exactly. Since there is no supply at the AD said Gov officials will have to buy off the secondary market at huge markups. Totally business as usual.